From RBLYSTON@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU Fri Jul 16 12:47:11 1993 Received: from vm1.tucc.trinity.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10600; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 17:44:22 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199307162244.AA10600@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from VM1.tucc.trinity.edu by VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 1839; Fri, 16 Jul 93 17:47:42 CDT Received: from TRINITY.EDU (RBLYSTON) by VM1.tucc.trinity.edu (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 8242; Fri, 16 Jul 93 17:47:41 CDT Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 17:47:11 CDT From: Robert Blystone Subject: Re: To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 16 Jul 1993 17:34:23 -0500 from Let it run: I will bear with the bounces. Blystone in Texas ********************** ROBERT V. BLYSTONE PHONE:(210)736-7243 DEPARTMENT OF BIOLOGY FAX:(210)736-7229 Trinity University E-Mail:RBlyston@Trinity.edu 715 Stadium Drive San Antonio, TX, 78212 From jamiel@sybase.com Tue Mar 16 08:06:46 1993 Received: from halon.sybase.com by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10752; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 18:00:44 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA12266; Fri, 16 Jul 93 16:06:01 PDT Received: from ralph.sybgate.sybase.com by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.2) id AA20407; Fri, 16 Jul 93 16:05:53 PDT Received: from [130.214.134.15] by ralph.sybgate.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.1) id AA07085; Fri, 16 Jul 93 16:05:49 PDT Message-Id: <9307162305.AA07085@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 16:06:46 -0800 To: , Multiple recipients of list From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence) X-Sender: jamiel@ralph.sybase.com Subject: Re: Re: Content-Length: 1008 At 5:47 PM 7/16/93 -0500, Robert Blystone wrote: >Let it run: I will bear with the bounces. Blystone in Texas > >********************** >ROBERT V. BLYSTONE PHONE:(210)736-7243 >DEPARTMENT OF BIOLOGY FAX:(210)736-7229 >Trinity University E-Mail:RBlyston@Trinity.edu >715 Stadium Drive >San Antonio, TX, 78212 Fine with me- haven't gotten this much mail in I don't know how long- :) seriously- It is easy enough to ingore. No problem, as long as it has no active harm otherwise that I cannot see. Also- guess I was wrong when I posted earlier- had dried up here for a while. Sorry if that message bugged anyone- nothing meant by it. jamie jamiel@sybase.com My company doesn't have anything to do with my opinions, nor do I if they might cause trouble for me at some point in the future. __________________________________________________________________ 'Don't think of it as a number- think of it as a unique expression of your individuality.' From Sat Jul 17 03:10:43 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10870; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 18:06:18 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199307162306.AA10870@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 01:10:43 +0200 From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail Attempting to deliver following mail to recipient(s): cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to connect for 3 days to recipient host. Delivery will be attempted for a total of 17 days. ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 14 Jul 93 00:43:32 +0200 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17726; Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:38:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:38:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199307132241.AA05455@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Doug Morris To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Undeliverable Mail Thanks. > > Doug Morris writes on 13 July 1993 at 10:12:01 -0500 > > > Please put a filter on listserv to avoid massed amounts of > > undeliverable mail. > > .. am working on it ... > > From Sat Jul 17 03:10:43 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10873; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 18:06:23 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199307162306.AA10873@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 01:10:43 +0200 From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail Attempting to deliver following mail to recipient(s): cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to connect for 3 days to recipient host. Delivery will be attempted for a total of 17 days. ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 14 Jul 93 00:47:50 +0200 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17780; Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:42:36 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:42:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199307132242.AA03772@unet.unet.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: "Paul W. Fakler" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: mailing list setup > From nih-image@soils.umn.edu Tue Jul 13 17:07:26 1993 > From: "John Ladwig" > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Undeliverable Mail > > Doug Morris writes on 13 July 1993 at 10:12:01 -0500 > > > Please put a filter on listserv to avoid massed amounts of > > undeliverable mail. > > .. am working on it ... The problem is that mail is going out with RFC821 SMTP command of: Mail From: When you want it to be Mail From: You can get this by doing the following: Set up your mailing list in /etc/aliases as follows: net-people: "|/usr/local/sbin/sendmail -odb -oi -om -os -fowner-net-people@mail.unet.umn.edu net-people-list" net-people-list: :include:/etc/al/net-people owner-net-people: unet net-people-request: unet Substituting for your list and locations, you get: nih-image: "|/usr/lib/sendmail -odb -oi -om -os -fowner-nih-image@mail.unet.umn.edu nih-image-list" nih-image-list: :include:/etc/nih-image owner-nih-image: jladwig nih-image-request: jladwig and create a link between /etc/nih-image and where you have the mailing list. run newaliases, etc... Rejected mail will now go to jladwig, or whereever (one copy), and not to the whole list. jladwig can then get a look at problem deliveries without affecting the whole list. I also have made mods to sendmail 5.65c to support large mailing lists. I'll talk to you about them if you want. Paul. *-----------------------------------------------------------------------* | Paul W. Fakler | *---------------------------------*-------------------------------------* | Internet : pwf@unet.umn.edu | Networking Services | | Bitnet : pwf@umnacvx.bitnet | Computer and Information Services | | Desk : +1 612 626 1654 | University of Minnesota | | Problems : +1 612 625 0006 | 130 Lind Hall, 207 Church St SE | | FAX : +1 612 626 1002 | Minneapolis MN 55455-0134, USA | *---------------------------------*-------------------------------------* From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com Fri Jul 16 18:20:40 1993 Received: from nova (nova.sarnoff.com) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11075; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 18:20:40 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from maca.sarnoff.com by nova (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA26766; Fri, 16 Jul 93 19:24:47 EDT Message-Id: <9307162324.AA26766@nova> Date: 16 Jul 1993 19:16:23 U From: "Norm Hurst" Subject: Re: Bounce... To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu RE>>Bounce... Don't shut down --- I'm getting pretty good at just deleting 'em. -Norm Hurst David Sarnoff Research Center P.S. I think you deserve a trip to Belgium. From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Fri Jul 16 15:25:27 1993 Received: from ATHENA.MIT.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11109; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 18:22:22 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA28361; Fri, 16 Jul 93 19:26:43 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade (5.57/4.7) id AA25915; Fri, 16 Jul 93 19:25:27 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 19:25:27 -0400 Message-Id: <9307162325.AA25915@cascade> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Primer on convolutions Jamie Lawrence writes, >Does anyone know what a good reference for determining how a given >convolve filter will effect an image? Also the other way around- how to >determine the proper array to achive a specific effect. Here I am talking >about effects more suited artistic type stuff than image analysis. What you see on the screen is called "2D direct space," while the representation of an image in terms of its frequency components is called "2D Fourier space." Convolution of an image by a filter (in direct space) is identical to multiplication of the Fourier transform ("FT") of the image by the FT of the filter, followed by retransformation back into direct space. All you need to do to understand the influence of a filter is to understand what its Fourier transform looks like. For instance, a piece of dust is a tophat function-- 1 at the center, falling suddenly to zero at some radial distance-- and its FT looks like a sombrero (actually, an Airy function, sometimes called the Sinc function)-- near 1 at the center, but vibrating around zero as the distance from the center increases. That is why you sometimes see concentric rings in high-resolution images: interference due to the wave-nature of photons. There are some subleties due to the difference between complex amplitude and real intensity, but you can ignore them for the purposes of this discussion. Useful Fourier duals, read either left-to-right or right-to-left, include Tophat (Sin(X))/X [Sinc] Exp(-AxX^2) Exp((-X^2)/A) [Gaussian] Delta function constant Cos(X) DeltaFn(X/2)+DeltaFn(-X/2) Sin(x) DeltaFn(X/2)-DeltaFn(-X/2) Sawtooth ((Sin(X))^2)/(X^2) To perform the convolution on an image in direct space, you multiply a discrete representation of the filter, called a kernel matrix, by a stencil around each element of the image, sum, and assign the result to the coordinates in the image. Any real matrix can serve as a convolution kernel, but to conserve information, the sum of all the elements of the convolution kernel should equal 1. For instance, if the convolution is represented as the 3x3 kernel A11 A12 A13 A21 A22 A23 A31 A32 A33 and the image is designated by the 10x10 array of pixels B00 .. B90 .. .. .. B90 .. B99 then the convolution produces a 10x10 array of pixels C00..99, and C62 := ( A11xC51 + A12xC52 + A13xC53 + A21xC61 + A22xC62 + A23xC63 + A31xC71 + A32xC72 + A33xC73 ) and analogously for the other 99 pixels Cii. (When the stencil overhangs an edge, the overhanging elements are ignored (e.g. use a 2x3, 3x2, or 2x2 stencil as appropriate), and the remaining kernel elements should be renormalized to sum to 1.) The FT of the FT of the function is the original function again, which means that the FT of a sombrero is a tophat. So, a reasonable "sharpening filter" is the convolution kernel .25 -.5 .25 -.5 2 -.5 .25 -.5 .25 The FT of a thin bell curve (Gaussian) is a fat bell curve and vice versa. So, a good smoothing ("unsharpening") filter is the convolution kernel .05 .10 .05 .10 .40 .10 .05 .10 .05 An good edge-emphasizing kernel sums to zero, not to one. Try -1 0 1 -1 0 1 -1 0 1 for Western edges, and 90 degree rotations of it for the other compass directions. - David Salzman, Ph.D. From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Fri Jul 16 13:25:55 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11116; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 18:22:54 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA19367; Fri, 16 Jul 93 18:25:55 CDT Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 18:25:55 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9307162325.AA19367@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: Subject: Re: Bounce... In-Reply-To: "Norm Hurst"'s message <9307162324.AA26766@nova> of 16 July 1993 References: <9307162324.AA26766@nova> "Norm Hurst" writes on 16 July 1993 at 18:20:54 -0500 > RE>>Bounce... > Don't shut down --- I'm getting pretty good at just deleting 'em. > > P.S. I think you deserve a trip to Belgium. I think I should wait until I cool down a bit. I might be tempted to look up a certain unresponsive postmaster.... From Sat Jul 17 05:25:01 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11699; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 20:20:30 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199307170120.AA11699@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 03:25:01 +0200 From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail Attempting to deliver following mail to recipient(s): cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to connect for 3 days to recipient host. Delivery will be attempted for a total of 17 days. ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 14 Jul 93 03:18:10 +0200 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18550; Tue, 13 Jul 1993 20:13:07 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 20:13:07 -0500 Message-Id: <9307140114.AA09145@saturn.soils.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: "John Ladwig" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: mailing list setup "Paul W. Fakler" writes on 13 July 1993 at 17:41:20 -0500 > The problem is that mail is going out with RFC821 SMTP command of: > > Mail From: > > When you want it to be > > Mail From: > > > You can get this by doing the following: > > Set up your mailing list in /etc/aliases as follows: > > net-people: "|/usr/local/sbin/sendmail -odb -oi -om -os -fowner-net-people@mail.unet.umn.edu net-people-list" > net-people-list: :include:/etc/al/net-people > owner-net-people: unet > net-people-request: unet Umm, except that my aliases file looks like: # Listserver section # listserv: "|/usr/server/catmail -r -f" nih-image: "|/usr/server/catmail -L NIH-IMAGE -f" nih-image-request: owner-nih-image listserv-manager: jladwig owner-nih-image: jladwig as I am running unix-listserv 5.5 (from tasos@cs.bu.edu). I am investigating a newer version of unix-listserver (6.0 with 6.0a to be released shortly), as Tasos (the author) says it will have somewhat better error and loop recognition. Also, sendmail never sees any outgoing message; they're delivered directly by a listserver daemon which handles digesting, archiving, and other useful things. I may be able to get a temporary fix into my nih-image configuration, however, at least as regards the From: processing. Ninety nine and some fraction percent of all bounce messages go (correctly) back along the Errors-To: specification, but I'll see if that hack makes things work OK. When that fails, I have set my list to reject messages from unsubscribed parties, which gets some more of the unobservant mailers. From nih-image@soils.umn.edu Tue Jul 13 17:47:26 1993 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17859; Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:47:26 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <01H0I3QPBIZMAFTVLG@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas Status: U From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu To: postman@frmop22.cnusc.fr Cc: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Undelivered mail Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1993 17:47:26 -0500 postman@frmop22.cnusc.fr: You are not subscribed to nih-image@soils.umn.edu. Your message is returned to you unprocessed. If you want to subscribe, send mail to listserv@soils.umn.edu with the following request: subscribe NIH-IMAGE Your Name ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your mail was not delivered to some or all of its intended recipients for the following reason(s): 6001 no valid recipients for this node [ ... ] From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com Fri Jul 16 20:50:57 1993 Received: from nova (nova.sarnoff.com) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11895; Fri, 16 Jul 1993 20:50:57 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from maca.sarnoff.com by nova (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA27260; Fri, 16 Jul 93 21:55:05 EDT Message-Id: <9307170155.AA27260@nova> Date: 16 Jul 1993 21:53:05 U From: "Norm Hurst" Subject: more on convolution To: "NIH Image user group" more on convolution 7/16/93 8:58 PM What convolution does is add the image to itself at many different displacements (as many as there are numbers in the kernel). The position of each number relative to the number in the center determines the [X,Y] displacement of a shifted image, and its value determines its relative contribution to the sum (that's why it's called a "weight"). The weight in the center determines the amount of the "main" (unshifted) image that comes through. If a tap weight is negative, you get an inverted, shifted image added into the total. For weird effects, use large kernels, sparsely populated (mostly zeros). Large displacements clearly appear as distinct images; smaller displacements just look like blurring (or sharpening, depending on the values). Here's a 9x9 kernel with just a few values set to non-zero: 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 This will give you a main image (the "5") and three other images, one of them a negative. Even with this large matrix the displacement is slight. You need bigger kernels to get bigger displacements, but computation time goes up as the square of the displacement you are trying to acheive. I tried a 39x39, and you have to be patient. Try cascading convolutions (convolve the result of a convolution). At very large kernels you will notice that Image automatically makes a selection of a subset of the picture; this is because when you get closer than half the kernel width to and edge, some weights "fall off" the edge, and it's not clear what to do. Wayne opted to not even try to filter those pixels. I don't think the kernel must have and odd-by-odd size (but it must be square for some reason... Wayne?), but if your kernel is even-by-even, there is no "center", and your output image will be shifted a little (1/2 pixel). For kernels whose taps add up to zero, Image automatically adds a gray-level offset to the filtered data (because half of the pixels will be negative, and Image only diplays positive numbers). No one knows how to display negative light :-) Hope this helps. Hope you are patient, too! -Norm Hurst David Sarnoff Research Center From Sat Jul 17 16:51:20 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA14212; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 07:46:49 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199307171246.AA14212@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 14:51:20 +0200 From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail Attempting to deliver following mail to recipient(s): cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to connect for 3 days to recipient host. Delivery will be attempted for a total of 17 days. ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 14 Jul 93 14:23:25 +0200 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21379; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 07:18:11 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 07:18:11 -0500 Message-Id: <9307141219.AA19678@helix.nih.gov> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: mvivino%helix.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Application: DNA gels >1) I need a UV filter for the camera that will filter the light from > the UV light box used to visualize the DNA. Most standard > photographic filters are not adequate. Any suggestions will > be appriciated. Try this company, they have a full line of high grade filters. The filters tend to attenuate light out of the passband better than any that I have seen. I don't have any UV filters from them, but have found some excellent ones for Coomassie blue and IR surpressing. Corian Corp 1-508-429-5065 73 Jeffrey Ave. Holliston, MA 01746-208 Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From Sat Jul 17 19:50:38 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15054; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 10:46:07 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199307171546.AA15054@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 17:50:38 +0200 From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail Attempting to deliver following mail to recipient(s): cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to connect for 3 days to recipient host. Delivery will be attempted for a total of 17 days. ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 14 Jul 93 17:21:58 +0200 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22354; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 10:16:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 10:16:44 -0500 Message-Id: <9307141431.AA15733@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: wayne%zippy.nimh.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu(Wayne Rasband) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: video rate acquisition problem >I am using Image 1.50b95 on Quadra 800 (24 MB RAM) with Scion LG-3 frame >grabber (16 MB expanded memory). I can average frames at video rate but when >making movie the highest rate I get is about 15 frames per second. I would be >grateful for any help from more experienced users. The Make Movie command does not yet support video rate capture using the LG-3's expanded memory. You might want to give Tod Weinberg of Scion a call. I believe he has a modified version of Image that does video rate capture. --wayne From Sat Jul 17 20:59:27 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15418; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 11:54:56 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199307171654.AA15418@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 18:59:27 +0200 From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail Attempting to deliver following mail to recipient(s): cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to connect for 3 days to recipient host. Delivery will be attempted for a total of 17 days. ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 14 Jul 93 18:17:55 +0200 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22728; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:12:48 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:12:48 -0500 Message-Id: <9307141613.AA20283@nucleus.immunol.washington.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Dave Coder To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Application: DNA gels >>1) I need a UV filter for the camera that will filter the light from >> the UV light box used to visualize the DNA. Most standard >> photographic filters are not adequate. Any suggestions will >> be appriciated. If filtering out uv to visualize ethidium fluorescence is the goal, then there should be lots of photographic filters that should do the job. UV is generally easy to filter out. I would think that uv/haze filters should do the job, or to be really sure, a yellow long pass filter (50% transmission peak at 550nm) will easily do the job. Color correction filters (those for correcting the response of color films to different color temperature light sources) such as 85 or 81A would probably work as well since they absorb at the blue end of the spectrum. Filter fluorescence for this application should be undetectable; it's easy to check. One of several advantages of using photographic filters with standard camera lenses is that you can get the filters in diameters to screw into the camera lens. If you want to use a variety of filters available only as squares, then there are mounts that make it very easy to slip in various filters. >Try this company, they have a full line of high grade filters. >Corian Corp >1-508-429-5065 >73 Jeffrey Ave. >Holliston, MA 01746-208 Corian makes lots of filters for many applications. Dave Coder dcoder@u.washington.edu From Sat Jul 17 20:59:27 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15421; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 11:55:01 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199307171655.AA15421@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 93 18:59:27 +0200 From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail Attempting to deliver following mail to recipient(s): cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to connect for 3 days to recipient host. Delivery will be attempted for a total of 17 days. ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 14 Jul 93 18:45:37 +0200 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22924; Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:40:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:40:31 -0500 Message-Id: <63399.r.harbottle@sm.ic.ac.uk> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Richard P Harbottle To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Application: DNA gels In Message Wed, 14 Jul 1993 11:17:49 -0500, Dave Coder writes: > >>>1) I need a UV filter for the camera that will filter the light >from >>> the UV light box used to visualize the DNA. Most standard >>> photographic filters are not adequate. Any suggestions >will >>> be appriciated. > >If filtering out uv to visualize ethidium fluorescence is the goal, >then there should be lots of photographic filters that should do the >job. UV is generally easy to filter out. I would think that uv/haze >filters should do the job, or to be really sure, a yellow long pass >filter (50% transmission peak at 550nm) will easily do the job. Color >correction filters (those for correcting the response of color films >to different color temperature light sources) such as 85 or 81A would >probably work as well since they absorb at the blue end of the >spectrum. Filter fluorescence for this application should be >undetectable; it's easy to check. One of several advantages of using >photographic filters with standard camera lenses is that you can get >the filters in diameters to screw into the camera lens. If you want >to use a variety of filters available only as squares, then there are >mounts that make it very easy to slip in various filters. > > >>Try this company, they have a full line of high grade filters. > >>Corian Corp >>1-508-429-5065 >>73 Jeffrey Ave. >>Holliston, MA 01746-208 > >Corian makes lots of filters for many applications. > >Dave Coder >dcoder@u.washington.edu To photograph Ethidium fluorescence on our Polaroid camera we use a Tiffen Ser.6 15 Orange (U.S.A.) filter. The UV transluminator manufacturer recommends using a Kodak Wratten No. 23A filter. This blocks UV and the visible blue light from the transluminator. I hope this helps. rph30@sm.ic.ac.uk ******* Richard ******* From jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jul 17 05:42:12 1993 Received: from Arizona.edu (Merlin.Telcom.Arizona.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16110; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 14:39:42 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pirl.lpl.arizona.edu by Arizona.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2381) id <01H0NE4EOWQO9EE58Z@Arizona.edu>; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 12:43:55 MST Received: by pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (4.1/SMI-3.2 LPL-MCN 1.25 91/08/23) id AA01664; Sat, 17 Jul 93 12:42:12 MST Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 12:42:12 -0700 (MST) From: jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (John Morrow) Subject: Sort Pallette To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <9307171942.AA01664@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Wayne, What happened to the Sort Palette command? John Morrow Image Processing for Teaching University of Arizona From bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Wed Jul 17 12:42:40 1993 Received: from enh.nist.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16486; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 15:38:29 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.6.98.4] (dsb-mac.nist.gov) by ENH.NIST.GOV (PMDF #2824 ) id <01H0NMGDFZ00005ODV@ENH.NIST.GOV>; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 16:42:40 EDT Date: 17 Jul 1993 16:42:40 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ENH.NIST.GOV From: bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Re: Coordinated Pan and Zoom To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0NMGDR83M005ODV@ENH.NIST.GOV> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >By the way... > >I have tried to use the macro language for signal processing, but the automatic >scaling of things like subtract and convolve messes me up. I wish I had a few >function calls like these: > >A function for precision gain and offset > y = (x + offset1)*gain + offset2 > >A function for adding two images > y = x1 + x2 + offset > >A function for multiplying two images > y = (x1 + offset1)*(x2 + offset2) + offset3 > >A function for convolution that doesn't decide what the offset and >tap scale factor should be: > y = conv(x, 'taps_filename') + offset > >I've tried to implement certain signal processing algorithms (like an >NTSC-to-RGB decoder), but I can't seem to get around the automatic scale and >offset properties of subtract, multiply and convolve. Am I missing something? > >Norm Hurst (Mr. MPEG) >David Sarnoff Reseach Center Norm, I just joined the NIH-Image mailing list, and saw your message. I use NIH Image too, but have developed another image processing package used here in the lab for special purpose stuff and calculations. It is called MacLispix, and is a descendent of sorts of the Lispix image processing system developed by Russ Kirsch at NBS years ago. MacLispix is ideal for doing such things as you speak of, as special purpose functions are easy to write. Convolutions on large images can be slow -- I mean to implement some C routines to speed them up sometime, but the important issue in hour lab is not calculation speed, but rather time to write code and get it working. It runs on the Mac, is free (just got the license to distribute it), it is written in LISP, so the pixels can be most anything - not just 8 bit numbers. It is new and not as user friendly as NIH Image, but we (Bill, who is writing the manual) and I are friendly, I think, and can add functions to suit. It is also easy to add your own -- I can show you how over the network. It needs 4Meg to run (at least), system 7.x. --Dave ------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Bright bright@enh.nist.gov Microanalysis Research Group Chem. A113 National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST, formerly NBS) Gaithersburg, MD 20899-0001 USA 301-975-3911 From bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Wed Jul 17 12:42:56 1993 Received: from enh.nist.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16509; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 15:38:38 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.6.98.4] (dsb-mac.nist.gov) by ENH.NIST.GOV (PMDF #2824 ) id <01H0NMGDFZ00005ODV@ENH.NIST.GOV>; Sat, 17 Jul 1993 16:42:56 EDT Date: 17 Jul 1993 16:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ENH.NIST.GOV From: bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Re: Re: To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0NMGQLNH2005ODV@ENH.NIST.GOV> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >If it *really* bothers evryone, I could shut down the list for two >weeks or until I get a response from the postmaster of the offending >system. > >Comments? > > -jml Don't do that. It doesn't bother me too much. I Just use Eudora and trash them without looking at them. They do use bandwith, but I understand how frustrating this sort of thing can be. I've seen it happen several times on other mailing lists. -_Dave ------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Bright bright@enh.nist.gov Microanalysis Research Group Chem. A113 National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST, formerly NBS) Gaithersburg, MD 20899-0001 USA 301-975-3911 From robday@uniwa.uwa.edu.au Mon Jul 19 22:52:29 1993 Received: from uniwa (uniwa.uwa.edu.au) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23941; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 01:48:19 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (robday@localhost) by uniwa (8.1C/8.1) id OAA28292; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 14:52:30 +0800 From: Robert Day Message-Id: <199307190652.OAA28292@uniwa> Subject: Any support for RasterOPs Colorboard 364 ? To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 14:52:29 +0800 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL11] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 459 We are using a RasterOps ColorBoard 364 in our Mac IIfx to acquire images of thin bone sections. At the moment we are using the frame grabbing application provided with the board, and saving 8 bit images and look up tables for later processing with Image. This is a real bore. Does anyone out there know of a PhotoShop plug in for this board so we can use it with Image 1.49x, or any other way to get our data straight into Image ? Much Thanks, Rob Day From Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu Mon Jul 19 07:14:07 1993 Received: from cbis.ece.drexel.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA25655; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 07:14:07 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from homer.ece.drexel.edu by cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU (5.67/1.34) id AA22951; Mon, 19 Jul 93 08:18:16 EDT Message-Id: <9307191218.AA22951@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> Date: 19 Jul 1993 08:19:48 U From: "Carl Gustafson" Subject: Re: To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply to: RE>> >If it *really* bothers evryone, I could shut down the list for two >weeks or until I get a response from the postmaster of the offending >system. Comments? I don't have any problems with the rejection slips either, since I just go and delete them unread. I suppose that you could try to just remove anyone on the offending system from the list? Carl Gustafson From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Mon Jul 19 08:29:02 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26205; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 08:26:59 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA01034; Mon, 19 Jul 93 08:44:04 -0400 Message-Id: <9307191244.AA01034@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 08:29:02 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Any support for RasterOPs Colorboard 364 ? >We are using a RasterOps ColorBoard 364 in our Mac IIfx to acquire >images of thin bone sections. At the moment we are using the frame >grabbing application provided with the board, and saving 8 bit images >and look up tables for later processing with Image. This is a real >bore. Does anyone out there know of a PhotoShop plug in for this board >so we can use it with Image 1.49x, or any other way to get our data >straight into Image ? Rasterops has a Photoshop plug-in that supports all their frame grabber cards. Unfortunately, the current version(1.5) crashes when you try to use it with either NIH Image 1.50 or Enhance 2.0. I have reported the problem to RasterOps and they are looking into it. --wayne From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Mon Jul 19 09:12:20 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26533; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 09:10:16 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA01402; Mon, 19 Jul 93 09:27:22 -0400 Message-Id: <9307191327.AA01402@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 09:12:20 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Sort Pallette >Wayne, > >What happened to the Sort Palette command? It has been replaced by the new RGB to HSV command in the Stacks menu. To my knowledge, the only thing Sort Palette was useful for was to sort the LUT by hue so objects could be segmented from background based on their hue. --wayne From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Mon Jul 19 10:04:43 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26953; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 10:02:40 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA01511; Mon, 19 Jul 93 10:19:45 -0400 Message-Id: <9307191419.AA01511@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 10:04:43 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: more on convolution >I don't think the kernel must have and odd-by-odd size (but it must be square >for some reason... Wayne?), but if your kernel is even-by-even, there is no >"center", and your output image will be shifted a little (1/2 pixel). There is no good reason why kernels must be square. I simply never considered the possibility of a non-square kernel because I had never seen one at the time. And now there is no easy way to remove this restriction since it is hardwired into the in-line 68000 machne code routine that does the convolution. --wayne From jamiel@sybase.com Fri Mar 19 01:40:48 1993 Received: from halon.sybase.com by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA27715; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 11:34:45 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA10508; Mon, 19 Jul 93 09:40:01 PDT Received: from ralph.sybgate.sybase.com by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.2) id AA27271; Mon, 19 Jul 93 09:39:55 PDT Received: from [130.214.134.15] by ralph.sybgate.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.1) id AA21564; Mon, 19 Jul 93 09:39:51 PDT Message-Id: <9307191639.AA21564@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 09:40:48 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence) X-Sender: jamiel@ralph.sybase.com Subject: Re: more on convolution Content-Length: 406 At 6:30 PM 7/16/93 -0500, salzman%Athena.MIT.EDU@relay.tc.umn.edu, not to mention that At 8:53 PM 7/16/93 -0500, Norm Hurst wrote bags and bags of stuff that will keep me busy for weeks, was far more help than I ever expected, will prompt me to learn lots of stuff (including some math I slept through in highschool :) for which I thank them both profusely. Wow! Thanks again. jamie jamiel@sybase.com From Mon Jul 19 23:38:52 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29165; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 14:35:42 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199307191935.AA29165@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 93 21:38:52 +0200 From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s): cc1.kuleuven.ac.be unable to connect for 17 days to recipient host. ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Fri, 02 Jul 93 21:09:04 +0200 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00394; Fri, 2 Jul 1993 14:04:16 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1993 14:04:16 -0500 Message-Id: <9307021901.AA09608@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: jmorrow%pirl.lpl.arizona.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu (John Morrow) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Averaging Stacks Is there a command in the macro language that corresponds to the 'Average' command in the 'Stacks' menu? John Morrow Image Processing for Teaching project University of Arizona From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Mon Jul 19 11:54:24 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29763; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 15:50:21 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.122.133.136] (PGL6.CHEM.NYU.EDU) by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-13 #2884) id <01H0QFFOF868000306@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Mon, 19 Jul 1993 16:54:31 EDT Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1993 16:54:24 -0500 From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff) Subject: 16 bit and real image arithmetic package To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0QFFON9J6000306@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have a User.p which defines a number of 16 bit and real arithmetic usermacro routines, and conversions between formats, using "illegible" images i.e. 16 bit images which display twice as wide as the "actual" image, real images display four times as wide. You aren't supposed to look at these images. (Actually, mostly the real versions are implemented, but making a set of 16 bit versions should not take long...) The same principle could be used for 8 bit arithemetic routines with no automatic scaling or with explicit scaling, called from macros. The routines specify pic numbers of input and output images. These will be made available one of these days in contrib on zippy. Merging this code with a new version of image is quite easy, since nearly all of the changes are in user.p. Typical Macro file: var numToHex: integer; CnvRealTo8, Cnv8ToReal, AddReal, AddRealCons, MpyReal, MpyRealCons: integer; SubReal, SubRealCons, DivReal, DivRealCons: integer; MinReal, MaxReal, SmlReal, SmlRealCons, LrgReal, LrgRealCons: integer; KernelParams, SmoothReal: integer; Pic8, PicRA, PicRB, PicROut: integer; procedure LookupUserCodes; begin numToHex := UserFunc(0, 0, 0, 0, 'NumToHex'); CnvRealTo8 := UserFunc(0, 0, 0, 0, 'CnvRealTo8'); Cnv8ToReal := UserFunc(0, 0, 0, 0, 'Cnv8ToReal'); AddReal := UserFunc(0, 0, 0, 0, 'AddReal'); AddRealCons := UserFunc(0, 0, 0, 0, 'AddRealCons'); MpyReal := UserFunc(0, 0, 0, 0, 'MpyReal'); [...etc...] end; macro 'Multiply Out := A * B'; begin UserCode(MpyReal, PicROut, PicRA, PicRB); SelectPic(PicROut); end; macro 'Convert Out to 8'; begin UserCode(CnvRealTo8, Pic8, PicROut); SelectPic(Pic8); end; macro 'Add Out := A + B'; begin UserCode(AddReal, PicROut, PicRA, PicRB); SelectPic(PicROut); end; [...etc... The whole file will be available on zippy one of these days...] These macros suffer from the changing picNumber disease. Perhaps my revised version will also include a "picOrdinal" function which returns picNumbers that will not change and can be used interchangably with picNumber values... Here are the changes required to modules other than user.p. Mostly, this implements the changes necessary to permit the above illustrated uses of UserFunc and UserCode, and also permits the Pascal code in User.p to generate macro error messages. Globals.p: Add UserFuncC, UserStrC to CommandType. Image.p: Uncomment InitUser Init.p: StringFunctions := [GetStringC, GetSerialC, ChrC, ConcatC, UserStrC]; Macros1.p: procedure DoUserCode (var StrResult: Str255; var Result: Extended); forward; function DoStringFunction: str255; var str: str255; discard: extended; begin case MacroCommand of GetStringC: DoStringFunction := DoGetString; ChrC: DoStringFunction := DoChr; GetSerialC: DoStringFunction := GetSerial; ConcatC: begin GetArguments(str); DoStringFunction := str; end; UserStrC: begin DoUserCode(str, discard); DoStringFunction := str; end; otherwise MacroError('"GetString", "GetSerial", "chr", "concat", or "UserStr" expected'); end; end; function ExecuteUserFunction: extended; var Discard: str255; Result: extended; begin DoUserCode(Discard, Result); ExecuteUserFunction := Result; end; function ExecuteFunction: extended; begin case MacroCommand of {...} UserFuncC: ExecuteFunction := ExecuteUserFunction; end; {case} end; procedure DoUserCode (var StrResult: Str255; var Result: Extended); {invoked for UserCode(code[,param1[,param2[,param3[,strarg]]]])} {also invoked for x := UserFunc(code[,param1[,param2[,param3[,strarg]]]])} {also invoked for str := UserStr(code[,param1[,param2[,param3[,strarg]]]])} {Contributed by Mark Vivino} var WhichCode: integer; Param1, Param2, Param3: extended; ErrorStr: Str255; begin Result := 0; StrResult := ''; GetLeftParen; WhichCode := GetInteger; Param1 := 0; Param2 := 0; Param3 := 0; GetToken; if token = comma then begin Param1 := GetExpression; GetToken; if token = comma then begin Param2 := GetExpression; GetToken; if token = comma then begin Param3 := GetExpression; GetToken; if token = comma then begin StrResult := GetString; GetToken; end; end; end; end; if token <> RightParen then MacroError(RightParenExpected); if Token <> DoneT then begin ErrorStr := ''; UserMacroCode(WhichCode, Param1, Param2, Param3, StrResult, ErrorStr, Result); if ErrorStr <> '' then MacroError(ErrorStr); end; end; procedure DoUserCodeDiscard; var DiscardResult: extended; DiscardStr: str255; begin DoUserCode(DiscardStr, DiscardResult); end; procedure ExecuteCommand; {...} UserCodeC: DoUserCodeDiscard; end; macros2.p procedure InitSymbolTable; with SymbolTable[263] do begin symbol := 'userfunc '; tType := FunctionT; cType := UserFuncC; end; with SymbolTable[264] do begin symbol := 'userstr '; tType := FunctionT; cType := UserStrC; end; nSymbols := 264; User.p: procedure UserMacroCode (CodeNumber: integer; Param1, Param2, Param3: extended; var StrResult, ErrorStr: Str255; var result: Extended); implementation const NoCodeMessage = 'Requires user written Think Pascal routine. '; type RealPtr = ^Real; packedUnsigned = packed record u: 0..255 end; packedUnsignedInt = packed record u: 0..65535 end; pup = ^packedUnsigned; puip = ^packedUnsignedInt; [...] {Variables used for scaling 16 bit to 8 bit } gScaleMin, gScaleMax: LongInt; gScaleXlate: Handle; procedure InitUser; begin {instead of commenting out the InitUser call in Image.p} {comment out the menu calls if you don't want to add the user menu.} {UserMenuH := GetMenu(UserMenu);} {InsertMenu(UserMenuH, 0);} {DrawMenuBar;} {Additional user initialization code goes here.} gScaleXlate := nil; gScaleMin := 0; gScaleMax := 0; end; [...etc...] -- Edward J. Huff huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (212)998-8465 Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003 From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Tue Jul 20 08:44:50 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07313; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 13:41:21 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA03436; Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:44:50 CDT Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 13:44:50 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9307201844.AA03436@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: JVANHELD@ulb.ac.be Subject: The Belgian bounce - suppressed? I have inserted a very narrow procmail filter ahead of the general list processing software chain, which *should* eliminate our infamous Belgian bounce. I have had the list processing system turned off since last night for testing on this new setup. Please send advisories on this to owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu, not to the list. If y'all have any questions you've been dying to ask, feel free - I want a variety of traffic, to see whether this is working correctly. Thanks to all of you for bearing with me on this, and in particular to all of you who sent soothing words and strokes my way in the last week. -jml From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Tue Jul 20 11:29:11 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08868; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 16:25:41 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA04517; Tue, 20 Jul 93 16:29:11 CDT Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 16:29:11 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9307202129.AA04517@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: A *little* too tight, I guess.. Well, I can see that two folks have tried to post into the list since I put in the filter, and their messages have gone into the great bit-bucket. Fortunately, one of them was the Belgian mailer. Unfortunately, the other was: davea@hpfcdma.fc.hp.com Dave, your message went into the bucket, so if you have a copy, please resend it. If not, please recompose it. Sorry about that. I have shut off the mail filter on nih-image@soils.umn.edu, but if some of you distant folks would be so kind as to fire some mail against nih-image-filt@soils.umn.edu for a while and CC: me on them, I'd be *real* grateful. -jml From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Tue Jul 20 11:48:21 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09047; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 16:44:50 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA04768; Tue, 20 Jul 93 16:48:21 CDT Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 16:48:21 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9307202148.AA04768@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: nih-image-filt@soils.umn.edu Subject: A *little* too tight, I guess.. Well, I can see that two folks have tried to post into the list since I put in the filter, and their messages have gone into the great bit-bucket. Fortunately, one of them was the Belgian mailer. Unfortunately, the other was: davea@hpfcdma.fc.hp.com Dave, your message went into the bucket, so if you have a copy, please resend it. If not, please recompose it. Sorry about that. I have shut off the mail filter on nih-image@soils.umn.edu, but if some of you distant folks would be so kind as to fire some mail against nih-image-filt@soils.umn.edu for a while and CC: me on them, I'd be *real* grateful. -jml From herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu Tue Jul 20 12:10:47 1993 Received: from staff.tc.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09362; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 17:05:55 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199307202205.AA09362@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from rash.med.umn.edu by staff.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c4c6d63029947; Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:10:45 -0500 From: "Mike Herron" Reply-To: "Mike Herron" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: The Belgian bounce - suppressed? Date: Tue, 20 Jul 93 17:10:47 -0500 In message <9307201844.AA03436@saturn.soils.umn.edu> writes: > If y'all have any questions you've been dying to ask, feel free - I > want a variety of traffic, to see whether this is working correctly. > MY EXCUSE! I am not a programmer so these are simplistic (at best) questions. Why is Image limited to 8 bit images? Since deeper images have become more common wouldn't it be usefull to support deeper formats? A related question. (?) Since so many folk (including Wayne _HIMSELF_:^) use NIH Image for fluorescence work wouldn't ratioing support be esp. usefull? Implementing deeper images with the ability to retain data that is now lost after deviding two images, would allow a small lab to save significant $$. I suppose I am asking for the moon...but like I said, I am no programer. ______________________________________________ / Mike Herron, Uof MN, Dept. of Deramatology / / herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu / ______________________________________________ From GRAD12@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Sat Jul 20 08:20:38 1993 Received: from SkyBlu.CCIT.Arizona.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09507; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 17:23:48 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU by CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU (PMDF #2381 ) id <01H0RQF2F8M88Y5RYU@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 15:20:38 MST Date: 20 Jul 1993 15:20:38 -0700 (MST) From: GRAD12@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Light stability To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0RQF2FI9E8Y5RYU@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To imaging experts: I am trying to use gray scale as an indicator of albedo of my subjects. In order for me to legitimately compare gray scales from one subject to another, I must beam the same intensity of light onto each subject (as well as having the rest of the imaging system constant). Obtaining a stable light source to an adequate level of precision is proving to be difficult; I'm wondering if and how others have solved this problem. In particular, how does one ensure that each subject is receiving the same light intensity such that their imaged gray-scale values can be meaningfully compared? Thanks in advance for any help, Paul Sheppard Tree-Ring Lab, University of Arizona GRAD12@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU From gshiva@eng.umd.edu Tue Jul 20 15:15:21 1993 Received: from filter.eng.umd.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09873; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 18:13:01 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by filter.eng.umd.edu (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4) id AA08556; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 19:15:21 -0400 Rcpt to:mailed to nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1993 19:15:21 -0400 From: Shivakumar Gopalakrishnan Message-Id: <199307202315.AA08556@filter.eng.umd.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: HELP ON POWER SPECTRA I would like to know whether the FFT version of Image can giv the power spectra of an profile. Any help regarding this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thank you G. Shivakumar From mark@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au Wed Jul 21 06:39:46 1993 Received: from monu1.cc.monash.edu.au by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11205; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 21:31:53 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au by monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (5.61/1.34) id AA05703; Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:39:52 +1000 Received: from [130.194.168.11] (mark) by hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22192; Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:39:47 EST Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:39:46 EST Message-Id: <9307210139.AA22192@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au> To: From: mark@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au (Mark Jessell) Subject: bounced mail filter apertures Cc: jladwig@soils.umn.edu This is a test of the Ladwig filter, as requested. mark Mark Jessell Victorian Institute of Earth & Planetary Sciences Dept of Earth Sciences Monash University, Clayton, VIC, 3168 Australia mark@hephaestus.earth.monash.edu.au Tel (61)(3) 565 4902 Fax (61)(3) 565 4903 From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu Wed Jul 21 03:14:55 1993 Received: from Sdsc.Edu (m5.sdsc.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11516; Tue, 20 Jul 1993 22:10:19 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 03:14:55 GMT From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten) Message-Id: <930721031455.20800508@m5.sdsc.edu> Subject: RE: Light stability To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH re question of >Subject: Light stability To imaging experts: I am trying to use gray scale as an indicator of albedo of my subjects. In order for me to legitimately compare gray scales from one subject to another, I must beam the same intensity of light onto each subject (as well as having the rest of the imaging system constant). " Try using an incident light meter, rather than a reflected light meter. Then balance the illumination to always give you the same level of incident ligh Then balance the illumination to always give you the same level of incident light. Ansel Adams is a very good source for understanding the use of incident versus reflected light meters. regards, harvey Karten Harvey J. Karten, M.D. Dept. Neurosciences UCSD 0608 La Jolla, CA 92093 Phone (619)-534-4938 FAX (619)-534-6602 E-Mail KARTENH@SDSC.EDU From este@cs.ait.ac.th Wed Jul 21 16:29:22 1993 Received: from munnari.OZ.AU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13275; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 03:16:34 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from cs4.cs.ait.ac.th by munnari.oz.au with SMTP (5.83--+1.3.1+0.50) id AA01008; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 18:20:53 +1000 (from este@cs.ait.ac.th) Message-Id: <9307210820.1008@munnari.oz.au> Received: by cs4.cs.ait.ac.th (4.1) id AA00967; Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:19:22+070 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:19:22+070 From: este@cs.ait.ac.th ( ESTE Armstrong) To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: test for filter Does this message get through? Este Armstrong From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Wed Jul 21 04:16:48 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA14659; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 07:11:59 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21840; Wed, 21 Jul 93 08:16:50 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade (5.57/4.7) id AA02090; Wed, 21 Jul 93 08:16:48 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 08:16:48 -0400 Message-Id: <9307211216.AA02090@cascade> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Calibrating your light source First, turn off the grey-scale renormalization "feature" of Image. Second, recognize that your camera is nowhere near as linear as you might expect-- the human eye compensates marvelously-- so absolute (cardinal) measures of albedo do not correspond to apparent intensity. That is, the values of pixels in your image have some complicated relationship to the radiance (i.e. emitted energy per unit solid angle), which is monotonic (e.g. a pixel value of 151 will always count more energy than a pixel value of 150, but not necessarily 151/150 as much). This means that unless you calibrate your system with known light intensities (again, the spectral illumination from a gas source or black body radiation from a filament do not emit linearly with respect to input current) your results will not be reproducible on anybody else's system. Non-uniformities across the field of view complicate the problem even more. - David Salzman, Ph.D. From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Wed Jul 21 04:25:15 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA14821; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 07:20:26 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA14440; Wed, 21 Jul 93 08:25:15 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 08:25:15 -0400 Message-Id: <9307211225.AA14440@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: > 8 bits >I am not a programmer so these are simplistic (at best) questions. >Why is Image limited to 8 bit images? Since deeper images have become more >common wouldn't it be usefull to support deeper formats? >Implementing deeper images with the ability to retain data that is now lost >after deviding two images, would allow a small lab to save significant $$. Just as a note to this, not so much to answer all of the above.... It often surprises me that it is often felt that > 8 bit data is really significant (in the extra bits) or easy to acheive. The Signal to noise ratios required to have greater than 8 bit data (gray level significance) are generally not available in cameras or digitizers. I would guess that most desk top scanners are about 5 to 6 significant bits in depth. Most cameras are in the 6 to 7 bit range. Dage, Cohu and others have cameras specking SNR that will give 8 bit significant bits if properly converted by the frame grabber. Which brings up another point, most of the inexpensive frame grabbers reduce the SNR back down to the 6 to 7 bit level.... Of course if you spend $$$ for a cooled CCD, or whatever device you have, such as a molecular dynamics gel scanner, and they have specked 12 bits, it would be nice to have a program which can handle the data. IPLab does a reasonable job (>8 bits), but I like Image better. It would also be nice to have a 32 bit program or a 48 bit program too, then you could add images together to your hearts content... Also try DIP Station and others. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Wed Jul 21 08:16:38 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15279; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:16:38 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199307211316.AA15279@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 21 Jul 1993 09:22:23 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: fitting an ellipse To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ fitting an ellipse Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Hi there, before I embark on an extended macro or adding a module to the code to do this, has anyone got a macro that does this?? I want to bring up a feature on the screen, click on half a dozen or more points on the featureand then fit an ellipse to the points and find the centre. I realize that this is essntially done in the measure particles mode if certain options are activated, but I want to do it on greyscale and not binary images. Any help appreciated. Thanks John Mansfield. From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Wed Jul 21 08:16:43 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15289; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:16:43 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199307211316.AA15289@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 21 Jul 1993 09:18:35 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: RE- > 8 bits To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ RE: > 8 bits Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu >I am not a programmer so these are simplistic (at best) questions. >>Why is Image limited to 8 bit images? Since deeper images have become more >>common wouldn't it be usefull to support deeper formats? >>Implementing deeper images with the ability to retain data that is now lost >>after deviding two images, would allow a small lab to save significant $$. >Just as a note to this, not so much to answer all of the above.... >It often surprises me that it is often felt that > 8 bit data is really >significant (in the extra bits) or easy to acheive. The Signal to noise >ratios required to have greater than 8 bit data (gray level significance) >are generally not available in cameras or digitizers. I would guess that >most desk top scanners are about 5 to 6 significant bits in depth. Most >cameras are in the 6 to 7 bit range. Dage, Cohu and others have cameras >specking SNR that will give 8 bit significant bits if properly converted by >the frame grabber. Which brings up another point, most of the inexpensive >frame grabbers reduce the SNR back down to the 6 to 7 bit level.... >Of course if you spend $$$ for a cooled CCD, or whatever device you have, >such as a molecular dynamics gel scanner, and they have specked 12 bits, it >would be nice to have a program which can handle the data. IPLab does a >reasonable job (>8 bits), but I like Image better. It would also be nice to >have a 32 bit program or a 48 bit program too, then you could add images >together to your hearts content... The thing is that cooled CCD are coming down in price and in the electron microscope world we are trying to move to 16bit data acquisition. The electron diffraction patterns that we study have a dynamic range of better than 10 to the 4 and so 16bits is ideal. We are not using video to acquire the image here but photomultipliers and CCD systems, I realize that we may be in the minority but we definitely have a use for better that 8 bit. I too have tried the other image processing programs that are available and have come back to Image, it's just a so much better put together package than most of the commercial stuff! You simply cannot complain about the price! Like most people I have a wish list, and if Wayne wants to add it then fine, if not, then I just have to keep wishing! From Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU Sun Jul 21 05:24:25 1993 Received: from dartvax.dartmouth.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15331; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:19:56 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from donner.dartmouth.edu by dartvax.dartmouth.edu (5.65+D5/4.5HUB) id AA27406; Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:24:40 -0400 Message-Id: <6018996@donner.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 21 Jul 93 09:24:25 EDT From: Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU (Charles P. Daghlian) Subject: Re: HELP ON POWER SPECTRA To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Image FFT does not permit generation of a power spectrum from a line intensity profile (I assume that is what you mean by 'profile). When Arlo Reeves produced Image FFT (as part of a Masters thesis at Dartmouth), he wrote some code that was never put into Image. This includes 68000 code modules that could be used to do what you want. I couldn't get him to add the line profile to power spectrum feature because there just wasn't time (and he had already done so much). The code may be in the Image FFT directory on zippy. If not, send me a note directly (daghlian@mac.dartmouth.edu) and I will find a copy to send you. Chuck Daghlian Rippel E. M. Facility Dartmouth College Hanover, NH 03755 From cammer@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu Wed Jul 21 05:42:41 1993 Received: from alsys1.aecom.yu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15671; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:38:38 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by alsys1.aecom.yu.edu id AA22031 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for nih-image ); Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:43:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:42:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Cammer Subject: Focus motor query To: nih-image Cc: jladwig@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Thanks to NIH-Image and VoxelView, we may be interested in purchasing a focus motor for a Nikon Diaphot to collect Nomarski and brightfield serial sections. Ideally, we would like something that could be integrated with the make movie command in NIH Image, but something that could just be plugged into the serial port of a PC would work fine. Does anybody have any suggestions? Thanks- Michael cammer@aecom.yu.edu From wesfreid@physique.ens.fr Wed Jul 21 17:48:28 1993 Received: from nef.ens.fr by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15747; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:43:42 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from dmi.ens.fr by nef.ens.fr (5.65c8/ULM-1.0) Received: from peterpan.ens.fr by dmi.ens.fr (5.65c8/ULM-1.0) Received: from merlin.ens.fr by peterpan.ens.fr (4.1/88/01/19 3.0) id AA04998; Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:48:28 +0200 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:48:28 +0200 From: wesfreid@physique.ens.fr (WESFREID Eduardo) Message-Id: <9307211348.AA04998@peterpan.ens.fr> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: questions about FFT I use FFT and i like to fnown if there are macro for this soft. It is possible to save the window with the FFT and after use this to do the inverse FFT? Its possible to touch the fft window and after do the inverse fft. thanks wesfreid From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Wed Jul 21 08:50:41 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15803; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:48:07 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA07669; Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:05:54 -0400 Message-Id: <9307211305.AA07669@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:50:41 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: fitting an ellipse >I want to bring up a feature on the screen, click on half a dozen or more >points on the featureand then fit an ellipse to the points and find the centre. > I realize that this is essntially done in the measure particles mode if >certain options are activated, but I want to do it on greyscale and not binary >images. 1) Check XY Center in Options 2) Use the line selection tool pop-up menu to select the segmented line tool 3) Click on the features of interest, double click when done 4) Measure --wayne From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Wed Jul 21 09:03:49 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15955; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:01:14 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA07711; Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:19:02 -0400 Message-Id: <9307211319.AA07711@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:03:49 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Ratio imaging >A related question. (?) Since so many folk (including Wayne _HIMSELF_:^) use >NIH Image for fluorescence work wouldn't ratioing support be esp. usefull? Not true. I'm not a scientest, just a lowly programmer. There are, however, people in my building doing fluorescence work. >Implementing deeper images with the ability to retain data that is now lost >after deviding two images, would allow a small lab to save significant $$. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I suspect there is a lot more to ratio imaging than simply dividing two images. Didn't Signal Analytics just hire a biophyicist to help tailor IPLab for ratio imaging? --wayne From Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU Sun Jul 21 06:47:47 1993 Received: from dartvax.dartmouth.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16422; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:43:11 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from donner.dartmouth.edu by dartvax.dartmouth.edu (5.65+D5/4.5HUB) id AA03548; Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:47:54 -0400 Message-Id: <6020165@donner.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 21 Jul 93 10:47:47 EDT From: Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU (Charles P. Daghlian) Subject: Re: questions about FFT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu --- You wrote: I use FFT and i like to fnown if there are macro for this soft. It is possible to save the window with the FFT and after use this to do the inverse FFT? Its possible to touch the fft window and after do the inverse fft. thanks wesfreid --- end of quoted material --- Unless someone else has added them to Image FFT, macros don't work with the FFT part. Image FFT is set up to display the power spectrum of the FFT in the FFT window. You can copy this window display and save it as an image, but cannot save the FFT. The idea is that you will always have the original image to re-transform. The FFT data are so large that at the time Arlo was concerned about storage. You can always get the source code and change this. You can do all sorts of manipulations to the FFT window and still do the inverse FFT. I suggest you get the documentation that comes with Image FFT and read it. It answers most of your questions. From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Wed Jul 21 09:49:43 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16482; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:49:43 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199307211449.AA16482@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 21 Jul 1993 10:53:09 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Re: fitting an ellipse To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu, "Wayne Rasband" Reply_ RE>>fitting an ellipse Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Thanks Wayne, I'll see if that does what I think I want! :-) -------------------------------------- Date: 7/21/93 10:40 To: John Mansfield From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu >I want to bring up a feature on the screen, click on half a dozen or more >points on the featureand then fit an ellipse to the points and find the centre. > I realize that this is essntially done in the measure particles mode if >certain options are activated, but I want to do it on greyscale and not binary >images. 1) Check XY Center in Options 2) Use the line selection tool pop-up menu to select the segmented line tool 3) Click on the features of interest, double click when done 4) Measure --wayne ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mse.engin.umich.edu with SMTP;21 Jul 1993 10:40:24 U Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c4d4aac009397; Wed, 21 Jul 93 08:54:53 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15844; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:49:40 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:49:40 -0500 Message-Id: <9307211305.AA07669@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: wayne%zippy.nimh.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu (Wayne Rasband) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: fitting an ellipse From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Wed Jul 21 09:57:28 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16640; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:54:59 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA07870; Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:12:41 -0400 Message-Id: <9307211412.AA07870@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:57:28 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: questions about FFT >I use FFT and i like to fnown if there are macro for this soft. >It is possible to save the window with the FFT and after use this to do the >inverse FFT? >Its possible to touch the fft window and after do the inverse fft. >thanks ImageFFT, Arlo Reeves' FFT version of NIH Image, comes with extensive documentation. It does not support macros, but does support frequency domain editing and inverse FFTs. It is available by anonymous FTP from zippy.nimh.nih.gov. --wayne From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com Wed Jul 21 09:58:27 1993 Received: from nova (sarnoff.com) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16686; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 09:58:27 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from maca.sarnoff.com by nova (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA19920; Wed, 21 Jul 93 11:02:58 EDT Message-Id: <9307211502.AA19920@nova> Date: 21 Jul 1993 10:44:42 U From: "Norm Hurst" Subject: Re: 8 bits To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu RE>>> 8 bits If you want more gray-level resolution over the entire black-to-white range, you need more bits. But if you only need to see more detail near black, consider: 1. opening up the iris (or equiv.) and just crunching the whites, or 2. using gamma correction in the camera before you digitize. This is a non-linear transfer function that increases the gain near black and decreases it near white. This trades off better gray resolution near black for less gray resolution near white. Perhaps your camera has it, but it's off. Perhaps (even better!) it's adjustable. Crank it up. Note that doing gamma correction after digitization (e.g. with Image's LUT) doesn't count for increasing gray-level resolution. It must be done before the signal is digitized. Gamma is typically about a square-root transfer function: y = x^(1/gamma) Values for gamma (for CRT correction) run 2.0 to 2.8. Norm Hurst David Sarnoff Research Center. From tg3@u.washington.edu Wed Jul 21 01:24:08 1993 Received: from stein.u.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17561; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 11:19:20 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.95.15.54] by stein.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25342; Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:24:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 09:24:08 -0800 From: Thurman Gillespy III To: Subject: Re: Light stability Cc: rowberg@u.washington.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Your message <01H0RQF2FI9E8Y5RYU@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU> of Tue, 20 Jul 1993 19:08:24 -0500 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII >To imaging experts: > I am trying to use gray scale as an indicator of albedo of my >subjects. In order for me to legitimately compare gray scales >from one subject to another, I must beam the same intensity of >light onto each subject (as well as having the rest of the imaging >system constant). Obtaining a stable light source to an adequate >level of precision is proving to be difficult; I'm wondering if and >how others have solved this problem. In particular, how does one >ensure that each subject is receiving the same light intensity such >that their imaged gray-scale values can be meaningfully compared? >Thanks in advance for any help, >Paul Sheppard >Tree-Ring Lab, University of Arizona >GRAD12@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Why not expose a grayscale strip that has a known albedo with your subjects? Then you can correlate grayscale measurements with albedo (or reflectance, or whatever else it is you're measuring). Make sure your reference has at least 5 to 7 points well distributed over the values of interest, as your measuring system will not be linear. Then you don't have to worry as much about the absolute stability of your light source (a difficult problem). In radiology, an old technique for measuring bone density is photodensitomtetry. You expose a radiograph of a hand (or whatever) along with a aluminum reference step wedge (aluminum has similiar xray absorption to bone). Then you can calibrate optical density with aluminum density. If you digitze the image, then graycales can be calibrated to aluminum density. There are some tricks to get it to work right, but that's the basic idea. Thurman Gillespy III, MD (tg3@u.washington.edu) Department of Radiology, SB-05 University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195 From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Wed Jul 21 09:23:16 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18162; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 12:18:27 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA14487; Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:23:18 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade (5.57/4.7) id AA02540; Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:23:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:23:16 -0400 Message-Id: <9307211723.AA02540@cascade> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Ratio imaging Thanks to heroic work by Ed Huff and Steven Blechner, we will be posting some code shortly to do fluorescence ratio imaging. The code also controls a Ludl crate and gathers 30 fps (small frames) froma Scion card. Details to follow. - David Salzman, Ph.D. From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 21 03:32:08 1993 Received: from ucsd.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18377; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 12:27:19 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from jeeves.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA22658 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:32:09 -0700 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu Received: by jeeves.UCSD.EDU (4.1/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA13017 to nih-image@soils.umn.edu; Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:32:08 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 10:32:08 PDT From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien) Message-Id: <9307211732.AA13017@jeeves.UCSD.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: focus control Michael Cammer asks about a focus control motor for the Nikon Diaphot. I have seen such a unit from Nikon at a meeting which looked pretty nice. It costs just under $3000, has an LED display showing z in microns, has a knob so that you can focus by hand, and is controllable from a serial port (you should be able to run it with the serial port features that Image now has). The Nikon guys had it on a confocal, I tried running it back and forth between two different z values and the positions seemed very stable (though they may have put a backlash correction into their software or something). A bit pricey, but if you have the money I would ask for a demo from your Nikon rep. I think it's a stepper motor-driven unit... Chi-Bin Chien chien@jeeves.ucsd.edu From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Wed Jul 21 09:57:54 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18747; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 12:53:09 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA17718; Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:57:57 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade (5.57/4.7) id AA02611; Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:57:54 -0400 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 13:57:54 -0400 Message-Id: <9307211757.AA02611@cascade> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Albedo Thurman Gillespy III suggests calibrating the system with a strip on known albedo. There are a number of problems in practice with that approach, although in principle it can be done. (1) Your camera and light source are going to be sensitive to the position of the sample. That means that the entire field of view needs to be surveyed, not just the center. If your sample provides signal from out of the focal plane, the problem is insurmountable. You can tell very quickly how much of a problem positional effects are. (2) For an object which is not self-luminous and not translucent, the radiance of the surface is a direct measure of albedo. After all, any incident energy has to be absorbed or reflected. But you need to worry about translucency, if you're using a microscope, and you need to worry about specular reflection. The notion of a scalar measure of surface reflectiveness, a/k/a albedo, assumes a completely diffuse, non-directional reflection function (a/k/a Lambertian reflection). You can test specularity by rotating your sample physically, rotating the pictures back, and seeing if anything changes. An oriented material like woodgrain can vary its reflectance by several-fold due to specularity. (3) Yet another problem will be spectral sensitivity. Your light source(s) emits photons across a wide band of energies (unless filtered) in varying quantities, and your camera retina also has some complicated frequency sensitivity. A material that appears neutral grey to your eye may or may not be grey in the infra-red or ultraviolet; your samples assuredly have color, hence a color balance, hence dependence on how much of the light source's energy falls into that color and how sensitive the camera is in that color. Polarization introduces another free parameter. If you can live with quick'n'dirty, then ignore all of this and do whatever gives usable results. But if you need to compare among samples or otherwise do quantitative image processing, there aren't any short- cuts to calibrating the hell out of your system. - David Salzman, Ph.D. From bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Sun Jul 21 10:14:00 1993 Received: from enh.nist.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18930; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 13:09:13 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.6.98.4] (dsb-mac.nist.gov) by ENH.NIST.GOV (PMDF #2824 ) id <01H0T2F0OY280064RR@ENH.NIST.GOV>; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:14:00 EDT Date: 21 Jul 1993 14:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ENH.NIST.GOV From: bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: RE: HELP ON POWER SPECTRA To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0T2FGULHI0064RR@ENH.NIST.GOV> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Image FFT does not permit generation of a power spectrum from a line >intensity profile (I assume that is what you mean by 'profile). When Arlo >Reeves produced Image FFT (as part of a Masters thesis at Dartmouth), he >wrote some code that was never put into Image. This includes 68000 code >modules that could be used to do what you want. I couldn't get him to add the >line profile to power spectrum feature because there just wasn't time (and he >had already done so much). The code may be in the Image FFT directory on >zippy. If not, send me a note directly (daghlian@mac.dartmouth.edu) and I >will find a copy to send you. > >Chuck Daghlian >Rippel E. M. Facility >Dartmouth College >Hanover, NH 03755 I'd appreciate a copy, too. Thanks --Dave ------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Bright bright@enh.nist.gov Microanalysis Research Group Chem. A113 National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST, formerly NBS) Gaithersburg, MD 20899-0001 USA 301-975-3911 From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Wed Jul 21 09:19:13 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19050; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 13:14:29 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.122.133.136] (PGL6.CHEM.NYU.EDU) by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-13 #2884) id <01H0T2LVKKB40007XI@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:19:12 EDT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:19:13 -0500 From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff) Subject: RE: questions about FFT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0T2LW6SUQ0007XI@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >>I use FFT and i like to fnown if there are macro for this soft. >>It is possible to save the window with the FFT and after use this to do the >>inverse FFT? >>Its possible to touch the fft window and after do the inverse fft. >>thanks > >ImageFFT, Arlo Reeves' FFT version of NIH Image, comes with extensive >documentation. It does not support macros, but does support frequency >domain editing and inverse FFTs. It is available by anonymous FTP from >zippy.nimh.nih.gov. > >--wayne Image VDM 1.44 includes Arlo Reeves' FFT code. Image VDM 1.49 is available, I have a disk that I haven't looked at... and probably I can post it. I assume that it would still have the FFT code, and of course it does support macros. -- Edward J. Huff huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (212)998-8465 Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003 From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Wed Jul 21 13:59:29 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19477; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 13:57:12 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA08613; Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:14:43 -0400 Message-Id: <9307211814.AA08613@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 13:59:29 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: RE: questions about FFT >Image VDM 1.44 includes Arlo Reeves' FFT code. >Image VDM 1.49 is available, I have a disk that I haven't looked at... >and probably I can post it. I assume that it would still have >the FFT code, and of course it does support macros. Image VDM 1.49 is already on Zippy. I had forgotten that ImageVDM now includes Arlo Reeves' FFT routines. --wayne From V112LNKD@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Sun Jul 21 11:38:37 1993 Received: from ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19844; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:31:32 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu by ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (PMDF #2452 ) id <01H0T53KUCMO90N85X@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 15:38:37 EDT Date: 21 Jul 1993 15:38:37 -0400 (EDT) From: V112LNKD@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Subject: rubberbanding To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0T53KUCMQ90N85X@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> Organization: University at Buffalo X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT hi, I'm going to try and write a macro that will allow us to analyze two diffrent gels. The problem being that the same species can, under mathematical analysis (i.e line plots to data macro), will appear diffrent. This is of coursebecause you can never run two gels for exactly the same amount of time. I understand that the best way to do it is to choose your standard and then create a parabolic curve to fit the other gel containing the same standard.... Has anyone done such a thing in image yet...Does anyone have any ideas..... Thanx mark---V112lnkd@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (716)8381563 From CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu Wed Jul 21 09:34:00 1993 Received: from vms2.macc.wisc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19876; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:32:30 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from VMSmail by vms2.macc.wisc.edu; Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:34 CDT Message-Id: <23072114344868@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:34 CDT From: Charles Thomas Subject: Re: > 8 bits To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu",CHARLEST >It often surprises me that it is often felt that >>8 bit data is really significant (in the extra bits) >or easy to achieve. The signal to noise ratios required True, but if Image could handle data that was greater than 8 bit, we could do color merges in Image instead of doing it in Photoshop. :) From pietrzyk@notorious.lbl.gov Wed Jul 21 05:58:47 1993 Received: from notorious.lbl.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20222; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:54:00 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by notorious.lbl.gov (4.1/1.39) id AA22598; Wed, 21 Jul 93 12:58:47 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 12:58:47 PDT From: pietrzyk@notorious.lbl.gov (Cezary Pietrzyk) Message-Id: <9307211958.AA22598@notorious.lbl.gov> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu UNSUB please unsubscribe me from this list From ladwi001@staff.tc.umn.edu Wed Jul 21 10:10:58 1993 Received: from staff.tc.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20455; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 15:11:36 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by staff.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 21 Jul 93 15:15:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 15:10:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: Mail filter (final?) testing To: NIH Image Mailing list Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII OK, thanks to the author of the very fine procmail package (Stephen R. van der Berg), I *think* I have now a working filter installed. There is no need for any more testing, you should all be able to act normally. Do please be understanding if one more message from our Belgian friend slips through, though. I'll try to stay on top of it. Thanks for your patience. -- John Ladwig General University Guy Email: ladwi001@staff.tc.umn.edu Fido: John.Ladwig@1:282/341 John.Ladwig@soils.umn.edu From gmei@hoh.mbl.edu Wed Jul 21 12:15:16 1993 Received: from AQUA.WHOI.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20531; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 15:17:09 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by aqua.whoi.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA09869; Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:21:58 -0400 Received: from [128.128.172.218] (STARMAC18.MBL.EDU) by hoh.mbl.edu. (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10720; Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:15:18 EDT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 16:15:16 EDT Message-Id: <9307212015.AA10720@hoh.mbl.edu.> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: gmei@hoh.mbl.edu (Guang Mei) Subject: Video rate MakeMovie available we have uploaded a modified version of NIH Image to zippy.nimh.nih.gov (pub/nih-image/contrib/ImageScion1.50b83.sit.hqx and ImageScion1.50b83.ReadMe.txt). This program allows you to capture images at video rate, and save them as a stack. Also one can change the DAC settings during the video rate capturing by using macro command. ------------- Guang Mei gmei@hoh.mbl.edu Tel:(508)548-3705 ext 374 Program of Architectural Dynamics in Living Cells Marine Biological Laboratory, Woods Hole, MA 02543-1031 From biaggio@bcf.usc.edu Wed Jul 21 07:55:16 1993 Received: from mizar.usc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21563; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 16:50:26 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by mizar.usc.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1+ucs-3.6) id AA15841; Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:55:16 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:55:16 PDT From: biaggio@bcf.usc.edu (Ivan Biaggio) Message-Id: <9307212155.AA15841@mizar.usc.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Image & FFT Hi, I am still new to image and this list, but the recent discussion on imageFFT has triggered this message. When I started to use Image I realized immediately that I badly needed also the possibility of FFTing. Therefore I downloaded the FFT spinoff of Arlo Reeves. Then, since I also needed the new features in Image149, I spent a whole afternoon in copying the code of Arlo Reeves to the source code of Image1.49. Arlo reeves did a very good job commenting all the changes he made at the time, so it was not too difficult. I had to change some things because they were either too old for the system or too old for the new version of Image. I am not sure that I changed everything in the correct way because I do not know Image enough. Now I see that other people need FFT and that somebody else also went through the trouble of copying Reeves' code to a new version of Image. I think that the possibility of FFTing, filtering, and calculating the inverse transform is a very powerful tool for image analysis and editing. Also the possibility of calculating the correlation between two images is very useful. Therefore I have the following question: Are there many people out there that would like to have FFT in the newer versions of Image? Would many people find the added possibilities of image processing useful? Wayne, why do you not add the FFT code to your standard version of image? Is this too big a wish, or would it be impractical in some way? Thank You, I am sorry if my questions have already been answered some time ago.. Ivan Biaggio University of Soouthern California From jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jul 21 07:54:52 1993 Received: from Arizona.edu (Hopey.Telcom.Arizona.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21599; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 16:52:09 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pirl.lpl.arizona.edu by Arizona.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2381) id <01H0T3WLA3F4A7396E@Arizona.edu>; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:56:49 MST Received: by pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (4.1/SMI-3.2 LPL-MCN 1.25 91/08/23) id AA01476; Wed, 21 Jul 93 14:54:52 MST Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 14:54:52 -0700 (MST) From: jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (John Morrow) Subject: Sort Palette To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <9307212154.AA01476@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >===== >John, > I'm just eavesdropping... why do you sort the palette? >--Dave > >------------------------------------------------------------- >David S. Bright bright@enh.nist.gov >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >It has been replaced by the new RGB to HSV command in the Stacks menu. To >my knowledge, the only thing Sort Palette was useful for was to sort the >LUT by hue so objects could be segmented from background based on their >hue. > >--wayne Mostly we use Sort Palette to select objects based on color . The RGB to HSV command is very cool and very useful, however, it does not work if we only have the composite image and not its RGB pieces. Also, we miss the Change Values command.... John E. Morrow Image Processing for Teaching University of Arizona From jladwig Wed Jul 21 12:34:59 1993 Received: by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22176; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 17:35:03 -0500 Return-Path: From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <199307212235.AA22176@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Subject: To: nih-image, nih-image1, @finhutc.hut.fi:rlahtinen@kylk36.uku.fi, #unsubscribe, nih-image Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 17:34:59 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 0 From bochonk@CC.UManitoba.CA Wed Jul 21 13:53:02 1993 Received: from canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23088; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 18:48:17 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from ccu.umanitoba.ca by canopus.CC.UManitoba.CA (4.1/25-eef) id AA18645; Wed, 21 Jul 93 18:53:07 CDT Received: by ccu.umanitoba.ca (4.1/25-eef) id AA17082; Wed, 21 Jul 93 18:53:03 CDT From: bochonk@CC.UManitoba.CA Message-Id: <9307212353.AA17082@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Subject: Re: 8 bits To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 18:53:02 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9307211502.AA19920@nova> from "Norm Hurst" at Jul 21, 93 10:19:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 980 I have a great desire to have IMAGE handle 16 bits images. IMAGE is a wonderfully intuitive package that I have my students use to manipulate 8 and 16 bit CCD astronomical images. The other software that we have, IRAF in UNIX, PCVista and MacVISTA on MSDOS and the Macintosh, and IMDISP on MSDOS have much longer and steeper learning curves or are less powerful. It would be great to have a version of IMAGE with 16 bits, but I realize from reading the mail list items for the past month that most users on the list do not need it and that IMAGE was not designed for my purpose. In any case, I really appreciate the access to IMAGE, to this mailing list and want to thank Wayne for the excellent package and for the maintenance of the package. Richard -- Richard Bochonko Ph.D. Department of Mathematics and Astronomy University College University of Manitoba Winnipeg, MB R3T 2M8 telephone (204) 474 9501 fax (204) 261 0021 internet Richard_Bochonko@UManitoba.ca From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU Wed Jul 21 11:49:54 1993 Received: from ucsd.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23833; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 20:45:05 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from jeeves.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA11342 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Wed, 21 Jul 93 18:49:55 -0700 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu Received: by jeeves.UCSD.EDU (4.1/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA27260 to nih-image@soils.umn.edu; Wed, 21 Jul 93 18:49:54 PDT Date: Wed, 21 Jul 93 18:49:54 PDT From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien) Message-Id: <9307220149.AA27260@jeeves.UCSD.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: focus controllers Robert M. Straubinger wrote to ask me: > just wondering if you have a feeling for how the Nikon > focus compares with the Ludl version (which also has autofocus). any > experience? Replies to the mailing list or here are fine I thought people would be interested, so I'm posting a reply: I've never seen the Ludl focus unit, so I can't really compare it with the Nikon. The Nikon didn't have autofocus as far as I know, so that would be a big difference. The Nikon was nice and simple (and $3000), but then I only saw it for ten minutes at Neurosciences. A company that I'm quite impressed with is Applied Scientific Instru- mentation, you may want to get in contact with them. They were super helpful and technically proficient, and seem to talk a lot with Paul Myers, a video wizard at the University of Utah who wrote the package that became AxoVideo (I think). They had Mac systems for controlling shutters, OMDRs, and focus units (they had built their own), all the things that you would need for fluorescence timelapse video. They are at: 3770 W 1st Ave. Eugene, OR 97402 (503)485-2284 Haven't actually bought anything from them, though (NIH-Image has been fine for my needs). Chi-Bin chien@jeeves.ucsd.edu From gshiva@eng.umd.edu Wed Jul 21 19:49:10 1993 Received: from filter.eng.umd.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24686; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 22:44:28 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by filter.eng.umd.edu (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4) id AA15058; Wed, 21 Jul 1993 23:49:10 -0400 Rcpt to:mailed to nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1993 23:49:10 -0400 From: Shivakumar Gopalakrishnan Message-Id: <199307220349.AA15058@filter.eng.umd.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Fractal Version of Image I tried to run the Fractal Version of the Image software but the the computer said something like Bad F-line ..... And then it quit the application. The specifications of the system that I was using is given below: Mac Centris 610 Has about 10M of free memory BUT HAS NO FPU processor. Thanks in advance G. Shivakumar From davea@hpfcdma.fc.hp.com Thu Jul 22 02:04:47 1993 Received: from hpfcla.fc.hp.com by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28126; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 08:59:26 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from hpfcdma.fc.hp.com by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.4/15.5+IOS 3.20) id AA28321; Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:02:01 -0600 Received: by hpfcdma.fc.hp.com (1.37.109.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA11780; Thu, 22 Jul 93 08:04:48 -0600 From: Dave Arns Message-Id: <9307221404.AA11780@hpfcdma.fc.hp.com> Subject: Image 1.49: Interrogating Colors? To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu (NIH) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 8:04:47 MDT Cc: davea@hpfcdma.fc.hp.com (Dave Arns) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] (Forgive me if you've already seen this; I sent it a few days ago when the Belgian filter was new, and I don't think it got through.) I have a question about Image (currently using v1.49), concerning interrogating/putting image colors from a macro. I know how to get and put pixel values (which indicate colormap entries), but is there a way to interrogate the current colormap? I want to be able to do processing based on the current *color*, not just the colormap index. Is there a way to do either of the following? o Retrieve the RGB value of the colormap entry indexed by the pixel at location X,Y; or o Directly retrieve the RGB value of colormap entry N. Of course, the inverse operations, putting RGBs *into* the colormap, are also needed. And then, for the *real* frosting on the cake, is there a pair of functions to convert between the red/green/blue color model and the hue/ saturation/luminosity model? I haven't found these capabilities in the documentation for 1.49, although they may be in 1.50; I haven't checked out the beta versions of 1.50 yet. If they aren't yet in 1.50, is there any chance they could be? (hint, hint :-) Thanks very much, Dave Arns Internet: davea@hpfcdma.fc.hp.com Post: Hewlett-Packard Company (or) davea@hpfcla.fc.hp.com Attn: Dave Arns MS27 HP-Desk: dave_arns@hp4000 3404 E. Harmony Road HP Telnet: 1-229-3882 Fort Collins, CO 80525-9599 USA AT&T: 1-303-229-3882 Fax: (303)229-4720 From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Thu Jul 22 06:26:54 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28430; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 09:22:06 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA15064; Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:26:54 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:26:54 -0400 Message-Id: <9307221426.AA15064@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: Image 1.49: Interrogating Colors? > o Retrieve the RGB value of the colormap entry indexed by the pixel at > location X,Y; or > > o Directly retrieve the RGB value of colormap entry N. This macro sounds like it does most of what you want, that is if I understand what you want. macro 'Show RGB Values [S]'; var x,y,v,savex,savey:integer; begin repeat savex:=x; savey:=y; GetMouse(x,y); if (x<>savex) or (y<>savey) then begin v:=GetPixel(x,y); ShowMessage('loc=',x:1,', ',y:1, '\value=',v:1, '\RGB=',RedLUT[v]:1,', ',GreenLUT[v]:1,', ',BlueLUT[v]:1); wait(.5); end; until button; end; Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Thu Jul 22 09:59:38 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28679; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 09:59:38 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199307221459.AA28679@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 22 Jul 1993 11:04:16 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Scion Composite Color Corre To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ Scion Composite Color Correction Macro Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Hi there, a few weeks ago someone posted a macro that helped filter out the color information that gives rise to fringing when you digitize from a color composite video signal with a Scion LG3 board. I accidentally erased that message, can some kindly soul repost it or just mail it to me please? Many thanks. John Mansfield. From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Thu Jul 22 10:32:32 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29001; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 10:30:02 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA11638; Thu, 22 Jul 93 10:47:50 -0400 Message-Id: <9307221447.AA11638@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 10:32:32 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Image 1.49: Interrogating Colors? >I have a question about Image (currently using v1.49), concerning >interrogating/putting image colors from a macro. I know how to get and put >pixel values (which indicate colormap entries), but is there a way to >interrogate the current colormap? I want to be able to do processing based on >the current *color*, not just the colormap index. Is there a way to do either >of the following? > > o Retrieve the RGB value of the colormap entry indexed by the pixel at > location X,Y; or Here is a macro that does just that. macro 'Get RGB Values'; var x,y,r,g,b,v:integer; begin x:=GetNumber('X:',x); y:=GetNumber('Y:',x); v:=GetPixel(x,y); R:=RedLut[v]; G:=GreenLut[v]; B:=BlueLut[v]; PutMessage('RGB=',R,',',G,',',B); end; > > o Directly retrieve the RGB value of colormap entry N. This is very similar. macro 'Get RGB Values'; var r,g,b,v:integer; begin v:=GetNumber('Color Map Entry:',v); R:=RedLut[v]; G:=GreenLut[v]; B:=BlueLut[v]; PutMessage('RGB=',R,',',G,',',B); end; >Of course, the inverse operations, putting RGBs *into* the colormap, are also >needed. There are many example macros in the file "LUT Macros" that does this. >And then, for the *real* frosting on the cake, is there a pair of >functions to convert between the red/green/blue color model and the hue/ >saturation/luminosity model? There is currently no macro macros to do this, but V1.50 has a menu command to convert an RGB image to HSV. --wayne From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu Thu Jul 22 08:23:03 1993 Received: from synapse.UMDNJ.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29574; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 11:23:49 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:23:03 EDT From: "Herbert M. Geller" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Colors, again. Message-Id: <9307221223.aa13396@synapse.umdnj.edu> Hi, My goal is to 'false color' fluorescent images in order to get a color output of a grey scale image. It seems that when I use either image or Photoshop to convert an 8-bit grey scale image to color, the conversion still assumes that the image has a total of 8 bits of information, so that the color separations look grainy. When I convert a grey scale image to an RGB image on my SGI Iris, the conversion is done by making the image a 24-bit colormapped image. Then I can pick any region of the colormap for my 8 bit image. It would appear that Photoshop should have similar capabilities. Is there an experienced photoshop user who could provide some advice as to how to do this? Another nice feature of the SGI machine is that they have a program to create a colormap by blending any two colors across as many indices as desired. Is there any equivalent for Photoshop. (I just got my Photoshop 2.5 today, and have just cracked the manual). Herb Geller Department of Pharmacology Robert Wood Johnson Medical School Piscataway, NJ. From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Thu Jul 22 12:17:31 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00107; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 12:14:57 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA12374; Thu, 22 Jul 93 12:32:49 -0400 Message-Id: <9307221632.AA12374@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 12:17:31 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Fractal Version of Image >I tried to run the Fractal Version of the Image software but the >the computer said something like >Bad F-line ..... >And then it quit the application. >The specifications of the system that I was using is given below: >Mac Centris 610 >Has about 10M of free memory >BUT HAS NO FPU processor. Fractal Image requires a floating-point coprocessor, but it should run if you install Software FPU, which simulates a hardware FPU. Software FPU is available by anonymous FTP from zippy.nimh.nih.gov, in the /pub/util directory. --wayne From wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov Thu Jul 22 13:14:08 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00603; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 13:11:34 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA12635; Thu, 22 Jul 93 13:29:26 -0400 Message-Id: <9307221729.AA12635@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 13:14:08 +0000 To: From: wayne@zippy.nimh.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Sort Palette >Mostly we use Sort Palette to select objects based on color . The RGB to HSV >command is very cool and very useful, however, it does not work if we only >have the composite image and not its RGB pieces. Why can't you convert the composite color image to RGB and then use the RGB to HSV command? >Also, we miss the Change Values command.... Here is a macro the does more or less what the old Change Values command did. macro 'Change Values'; var v1,v2:integer; begin v1:=GetNumber('Change pixels with this value:',255); v2:=GetNumber('to this value:',254); ChangeValues(v1,v1,v2); end; --wayne From skim@signal.poly.edu Thu Jul 22 10:17:00 1993 Received: from signal.poly.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00659; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 13:16:25 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by signal.poly.edu (5.65/1.34) id AA03088; Thu, 22 Jul 93 14:17:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 14:17:00 -0400 From: skim@signal.poly.edu (Seung Pil Kim) Message-Id: <9307221817.AA03088@signal.poly.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: medical images Cc: skim@signal.poly.edu I'm new to this mailing list. Apologize me if the following question is not relavent to this group. I like to know where I can get variety of medical images; such as X-ray images of different parts of body, as well as MR, ultra sound images, etc. I want to evaluate my compression algorithm for different types of medical images. For the training purpose, I would like to get multiple frames of images in each group, i.e., chest X-ray, mamograms etc. Anybody could help ? Thanks. S.P.Kim From wayne@helix.nih.gov Thu Jul 22 14:06:05 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01153; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 14:03:31 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA12849; Thu, 22 Jul 93 14:21:24 -0400 Message-Id: <9307221821.AA12849@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 14:06:05 +0000 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Image & FFT >Therefore I downloaded the FFT spinoff of Arlo Reeves. Then, since I also >needed the new features in Image149, I spent a whole afternoon in copying >the code of Arlo Reeves to the source code of Image1.49. ImageVDM 1.49 from Perceptics contains Arlo Reeves' FFT routines. It is available by anonymous FTP from zippy.nimh.nih.gov, in the /pub/nih-image/image_spinoffs directory. >Wayne, why do you not add the FFT code to your standard version of image? >Is this too big a wish, or would it be impractical in some way? One problem with Arlo's FFT code is that it is written in 68000 assembler, which means there probably won't be any easy way to port it to the PowerPC. --wayne From WETZEL@metro.bst.rochester.edu Thu Jul 22 11:54:00 1993 Received: from metro.bst.rochester.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01526; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 14:48:58 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from METRO by METRO (PMDF #12506) id <01H0UK86H1DC9GVH6Z@METRO>; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 15:54 EDT Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 15:54 EDT From: WETZEL@metro.bst.rochester.edu Subject: unsubscribe To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0UK86H1DC9GVH6Z@METRO> X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" .. From gshiva@eng.umd.edu Thu Jul 22 12:05:27 1993 Received: from filter.eng.umd.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01675; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 15:00:41 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by filter.eng.umd.edu (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4) id AA17853; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 16:05:27 -0400 Rcpt to:mailed to nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 16:05:27 -0400 From: Shivakumar Gopalakrishnan Message-Id: <199307222005.AA17853@filter.eng.umd.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Help on FFT output I am new to FFT analysis and I tried to get the Power spectra from a curve (the curve is very close to sine curve). I thought that I would get a graph as an output with the frequency on the x-axis and S(w) on the y-axis. But I got a symmetrical shaded image and I don't what to make out of it. Any help on this matter will be greatly appreciated. Thanks G. Shivakumar From marrionn@ohsu.edu Thu Jun 30 06:30:18 1922 Received: from stjohns.ohsu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA02043; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 15:29:10 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by stjohns.ohsu.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #18) id m0oJ7HO-0000NrC; Thu, 22 Jul 93 13:30 PDT Message-Id: Message-Version: 2 >To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: marrionn@ohsu.edu (Neil Marrion,MAC,VIABR) Date: Thu Jul 22 13:30:18 PDT 1993 Ua-Content-Id: End-Of-Header: Email-Version: 2 Subject: syncing with Image To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Ua-Message-Id: End-Of-Protocol: Content-Type: Text Content-Length: 364 hello, does anyone know of a macro written for Image 1.49 that allows syncing of a filter wheel (outputing ttl pulses) with a CCD camera (RS170 sync pulses). Any one who also has an idea of acquiring two images into different memory buffers with Image would also be handy! Thanks in anticipation Neil Marrion marrionn@ohsu.edu tel (503)4942804 fax(503)4942285 From simon@notorious.lbl.gov Thu Jul 22 06:39:05 1993 Received: from notorious.lbl.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA02117; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 15:34:17 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by notorious.lbl.gov (4.1/1.39) id AA24610; Thu, 22 Jul 93 13:39:05 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 13:39:05 PDT From: simon@notorious.lbl.gov (Simon Sabato) Message-Id: <9307222039.AA24610@notorious.lbl.gov> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: unsubscribe From std_nicholso@hg.uleth.ca Thu Jul 22 09:32:23 1993 Received: from mr.uleth.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA02699; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 16:25:02 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V3.3 VAX) id 26453; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 15:32:31 MDT Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1993 15:32:23 MDT From: std_nicholso@hg.uleth.ca To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <0096FE2D.DCDAAB20.26453@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: unsubscribe From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Thu Jul 22 11:38:40 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA02902; Thu, 22 Jul 1993 16:35:13 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA13987; Thu, 22 Jul 93 16:38:40 CDT Date: Thu, 22 Jul 93 16:38:40 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9307222138.AA13987@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: Subject: Mailing list subscription/unsubscription[was Re: unsubscribe] In-Reply-To: std_nicholso@hg.uleth.ca's message <0096FE2D.DCDAAB20.26453@hg.uleth.ca> of 22 July 1993 References: <0096FE2D.DCDAAB20.26453@hg.uleth.ca> Looks like it's time to post this again... To unsubscribe from this list, please send messages to: listserv@soils.umn.edu with the body of the message: unsubscribe nih-image Thankyou. From Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu Fri Jul 23 07:18:57 1993 Received: from cbis.ece.drexel.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08063; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 07:18:57 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from homer.ece.drexel.edu by cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU (5.67/1.34) id AA03932; Fri, 23 Jul 93 08:23:28 EDT Message-Id: <9307231223.AA03932@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> Date: 23 Jul 1993 08:22:34 U From: "Carl Gustafson" Subject: Re: Fractal Version of Imag To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply to: RE>>Fractal Version of Image (To amplify on Wayne's response...) The Centris 610 CPU is a 68LC040 (I think thats the number), which doesn't have any floating point functions. I think that the same is true of the low-end Centris 650, but the high-end models do have an on-board FPU. I had read in one of the trade rags that it was possible to replace the 610's processor with one having an on-board FPU. If the processor is socketed, this is relatively simple. If the chip is surface mounted, it is not something easy to do. Lastly, Pseudo-FPU will make the software think that there is an FPU in the 610, but it will be much slower than having a real one. Carl Gustafson Software Guy Imaging and Computer Vision Center Drexel University From reuber@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu Fri Jul 23 04:26:03 1993 Received: from hydra.rose.brandeis.edu (hydra.cc.brandeis.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08668; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 08:20:53 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by hydra.rose.brandeis.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA09888; Fri, 23 Jul 93 09:28:48 -0400 Message-Id: <9307231328.AA09888@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 09:26:03 -0500 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: reuber@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu (Kent Reuber) Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe Kent Reuber, Computational Specialist Biology Department, Brandeis University reuber@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu Fri Jul 23 06:36:43 1993 Received: from synapse.UMDNJ.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09290; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 09:37:31 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 10:36:43 EDT From: "Herbert M. Geller" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Colormap Message-Id: <9307231036.aa14660@synapse.umdnj.edu> I posted a question yesterday about altering the colormap to have a "green" or a "red" map. I the source listings for v1.5, I found a procedure MakeSpectrum that seems to alter the colormap by altering the hue. I think that this routine could work for me by keeping Sat & Hue Constant, but altering value. The major question, then, is can this procedure be simply converted to a Macro, or do I need to do something else? It would seem that this Macro would have to know about all the procedures & functions used, such as HSV2RGB, and I am rather a novice at Pascal & Image. Herb Geller From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Jul 23 10:00:52 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09511; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 09:58:21 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA16214; Fri, 23 Jul 93 10:16:17 -0400 Message-Id: <9307231416.AA16214@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 10:00:52 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: medical images >I like to know where I can get variety of medical images; >such as X-ray images of different parts of body, as well as >MR, ultra sound images, etc. I want to evaluate my compression >algorithm for different types of medical images. For the >training purpose, I would like to get multiple frames of images >in each group, i.e., chest X-ray, mamograms etc. There are a few 3D medical data sets in the /pub/nih-image/stacks directory on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. In addition, the 3D_knee.txt document in that directory has a pointer to some more 3D data sets available by FTP from the University of North Carolina. -wayne From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Jul 23 10:27:22 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10022; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 10:24:51 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA16341; Fri, 23 Jul 93 10:42:46 -0400 Message-Id: <9307231442.AA16341@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 10:27:22 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Colormap >I posted a question yesterday about altering the colormap >to have a "green" or a "red" map. > >I the source listings for v1.5, I found a procedure MakeSpectrum >that seems to alter the colormap by altering the hue. I think >that this routine could work for me by keeping Sat & Hue Constant, >but altering value. The major question, then, is can this >procedure be simply converted to a Macro, or do I need to do >something else? It would seem that this Macro would have to >know about all the procedures & functions used, such as HSV2RGB, >and I am rather a novice at Pascal & Image. The MakeSpectrum routine in Image(enclosed) cannot easily be converted to a macro. One problem is that HSVColor is a record and the macro languages does not support records or user defined arrays. Another problem is that HSV2RGB(a Mac toolbox routine) cannot be called from a macro. You could work around these problems be using the arrays built into the macro language, such as RedLUT, GreenLUT, BlueLUT, rUser1 and rUser2, and by writing your own version of HSV to RGB. Pascal code for doing HSV to RGB conversion can be found in the book "Fundamentals of Interactive Computer Graphics" by Foley and Van Dam. --wayne procedure MakeSpectrum; {Generates the "Spectrum" color table.} const Sat = -1; Val = -1; var i: integer; color: HSVColor; begin with info^ do begin for i := 0 to 255 do begin color.hue := i * 256; color.saturation := sat; color.value := val; HSV2RGB(color, ctable[i].rgb); end; LutMode := ColorLut; IdentityFunction := false; SetupPseudocolor; end; end; From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Fri Jul 23 08:55:25 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10708; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 11:50:40 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA20789; Fri, 23 Jul 93 12:55:27 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade (5.57/4.7) id AA03091; Fri, 23 Jul 93 12:55:25 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 12:55:25 -0400 Message-Id: <9307231655.AA03091@cascade> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: NCSA Layout I have posted the files for NCSA Layout to the pub/image/contrib folder on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. Updates to NCSA Layout are available in the Mac/Layout directory of the zaphod.ncsa.uiuc.edu server. NCSA Layout allows images and text to be layed out together on a window, and cleaned up for subsequent publication. From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Fri Jul 23 09:01:18 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10759; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 11:57:13 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA21667; Fri, 23 Jul 93 13:01:49 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade (5.57/4.7) id AA03095; Fri, 23 Jul 93 13:01:18 -0400 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 13:01:18 -0400 Message-Id: <9307231701.AA03095@cascade> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: NCSA PalEdit The files for NCSA PalEdit can now be found in the pub/image/contrib directoty on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. Updates are available in the Mac/ PalEdit1.3 directory on zaphod.ncsa.uiuc.edu. NCSA PalEdit allows the editing and previewing of greyscale and color palettes. The package is quite slick! It offers a number of ways to manipulate palettes, and presents them in HSV or RGB systems. I give this package a five-star rating. From BERGRH@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU Tue Jul 23 06:26:24 1993 Received: from msuvx1.memst.edu (memstvx1.memst.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10938; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 12:19:10 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU by MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU (PMDF #3869 ) id <01H0VR6C3U4W90NJ14@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU>; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 12:26:24 CST Date: 23 Jul 1993 12:26:24 -0600 (CST) From: BERGRH@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU Subject: Re: focus control To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0VR6C3U4Y90NJ14@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU> X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The Nikon focus control is only programmed to run from a PC. I found an old doorstop IBM clone from the basement to run just the focus motor. Howard Berg, Memphis State Biology From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Jul 23 13:06:50 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11303; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 13:04:24 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA17176; Fri, 23 Jul 93 13:22:15 -0400 Message-Id: <9307231722.AA17176@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 13:06:50 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: NCSA Layout and PalEdit I have moved the NCSA Layout and PalEdit programs into the /pub/nih-image/programs/ncsa directory on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. --wayne From chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU Fri Jul 23 04:31:16 1993 Received: from ucsd.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11524; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 13:26:29 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from jeeves.ucsd.edu by ucsd.edu; id AA24325 sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:31:17 -0700 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu Received: by jeeves.UCSD.EDU (4.1/UCSDGENERIC.4) id AA09791 to nih-image@soils.umn.edu; Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:31:16 PDT Date: Fri, 23 Jul 93 11:31:16 PDT From: chien@jeeves.UCSD.EDU (Chi-Bin Chien) Message-Id: <9307231831.AA09791@jeeves.UCSD.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Nikon focus controller Howard Berg writes: > The Nikon focus control is only programmed to run from a PC. Yes, I forgot to say that Nikon's software only runs on a PC. It should be easy to use Image's new serial-port capabilities to run it though, at least for simple operations (adjust focus up or down, take a z-series). Or am I missing something? Chi-Bin Chien chien@jeeves.ucsd.edu From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Fri Jul 23 10:34:56 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12074; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 14:30:18 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.122.133.136] (PGL6.CHEM.NYU.EDU) by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-13 #2884) id <01H0VXTFHWU8000184@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 15:34:57 EDT Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 15:34:56 -0500 From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff) Subject: RE: > 8 bits To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H0VXTFQHHE000184@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mark Vivino writes >It often surprises me that it is often felt that > 8 bit data is really >significant (in the extra bits) or easy to acheive. The Signal to noise >ratios required to have greater than 8 bit data (gray level significance) >are generally not available in cameras or digitizers. Two points: (1) if you integrate enough frames, the s/n ratio will exceed 8 bits, assuming that the noise is actually random. The images we look at have signal of only 10 or 20 gray levels above background. We integrate 32 images and get somewhat better results. When we were truncating the raw data to 8 bits before any processing, the results were much worse than when we kept all of the bits of the sum. (2) the major reason for wanting images of greater than 8 bit precision is to avoid accumulation of roundoff error when a series of manipulations is done. Try running smooth a few times on an image with a nice normal looking histogram, and watch the histogram. -- Edward J. Huff huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (212)998-8465 Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003 From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Jul 23 16:43:14 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13177; Fri, 23 Jul 1993 16:40:42 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA17907; Fri, 23 Jul 93 16:58:35 -0400 Message-Id: <9307232058.AA17907@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1993 16:43:14 +0000 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Scion TV-3 Export Plug-in I have uploaded a plug-in for the Scion TV-3 card to the plug-ins directory on Zippy. The TV-3 is an RS-170 output card that can be used to drive a thermal printer. This is an export plug-in that only works with the latest 1.50 beta. --wayne From andrew@artemis.earth.monash.edu.au Mon Jul 26 11:14:07 1993 Received: from monu1.cc.monash.edu.au by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29941; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 01:09:49 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from artemis.earth.monash.edu.au by monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (5.61/1.34) id AA08262; Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:14:12 +1000 Received: from [130.194.169.109] by artemis.earth.monash.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01535; Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:14:08 EST Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 16:14:07 EST Message-Id: <9307260614.AA01535@artemis.earth.monash.edu.au> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: andrew@artemis.earth.monash.edu.au (andrew matthews) Subject: Using Dispose in a macro Hi, I'm having problems using the 'Dispose' command in a macro. Can any one tell me what I am doing wrong the attached Macro. When I do the following. I get very strange results. Open two DIFFERENT images. Make selections (line or rectangle) on each of the two images. Open a third image. Run the macro (press D) Manipulate the selection on the front window. At this point I get one of three things happen 1) Nothing abnormal. 2) The selection is redraw in its new position without erasing it from its last position. 3) The image below the selection is redraw in parts with the contents of the other open window. macro 'Dispose of window [D]'; begin dispose; end; From VRDP3ROZ@RULIMBURG.NL Mon Jul 26 13:14:00 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01355; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 05:16:00 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from HEARN.NIC.SURFNET.NL (MAILER@HEARN) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H0ZJB70P5SAPTSFX@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 05:22:26 CDT Received: from RULIMBURG.NL (NJE origin VRDP3ROZ@HMARL5) by HEARN.NIC.SURFNET.NL (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 0980; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 12:18:45 +0200 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 12:14 +0100 (MET) From: VRDP3ROZ@RULIMBURG.NL Subject: BIN-files To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hallo, I recently downloaded a .bin file from the stacks directory. The file was first stored on the VAX I am connected to. Than I picked up the file to my Mac. All was done in binary mode. My question is, how can I get the file loaded into Image ? How do I import binary stack files into Image ? Thanks, Nico Rozendaal, State University of Limburg, Dept. of Neuropsychology, Maastricht, The Netherlands. (e-mail: nico.rozendaal@np.rulimburg.nl ) From wayne@helix.nih.gov Mon Jul 26 09:09:54 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03051; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 09:07:28 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA21779; Mon, 26 Jul 93 09:25:35 -0400 Message-Id: <9307261325.AA21779@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 09:09:54 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Using Dispose in a macro >I'm having problems using the 'Dispose' command in a macro. >Can any one tell me what I am doing wrong the attached Macro. >When I do the following. I get very strange results. Try v1.50b112 on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. It fixes a potential problem in the Close and Dispose macro routines that could cause a problem like this. --wayne From wayne@helix.nih.gov Mon Jul 26 09:22:14 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03179; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 09:19:49 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA21837; Mon, 26 Jul 93 09:37:55 -0400 Message-Id: <9307261337.AA21837@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 09:22:14 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: BIN-files >I recently downloaded a .bin file from the stacks directory. >The file was first stored on the VAX I am connected to. >Than I picked up the file to my Mac. All was done in binary mode. > >My question is, how can I get the file loaded into Image ? >How do I import binary stack files into Image ? Transfer the .bin file from Zippy to your VAX using binary mode and from your VAX to your Mac using MacBinary mode. The file may also be compressed. If this is the case, you may have to use a compression utility such as Stuffit(for .sit files) or Compact Pro(for .cpt files). --wayne From pg035690@imgen.bcm.tmc.edu Mon Jul 26 04:34:15 1993 Received: from FLEMING.SSCTR.BCM.TMC.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03359; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 09:30:43 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from imgen.bcm.tmc.edu ([128.249.26.5]) by FLEMING.SSCTR.BCM.TMC.EDU (AA18697); Mon, 26 Jul 93 09:33:54 CDT Received: by imgen.bcm.tmc.edu (AA00316); Mon, 26 Jul 93 09:34:15 CDT From: Peter S. Galatin Message-Id: <9307261434.AA00316@imgen.bcm.tmc.edu> Subject: How do I scroll the Results Window To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Mon, 26 Jul 93 9:34:15 CDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0] This is a rather basic mac programming question. What commands should I issue to scroll the results window after I've used PutString/PutChar commands? Thanks, From djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu Mon Jul 26 10:42:09 1993 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA06895; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 15:46:20 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by wugate.wustl.edu (5.65c+/WUSTL-0.3) with SMTP id AA05014; Mon, 26 Jul 1993 15:42:10 -0500 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1993 15:42:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199307262042.AA05014@wugate.wustl.edu> From: djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu (D.J. Meyer) To: "nih-image@soils.umn.edu"@WUGATE.wustl.edu Subject: Density Slicing Hi, i'm new to nih-image, and have some questions. we are capturing images from a microscope using an optronics vi-470 ccd system. we store them on a mac fx. the images are low level magnification of retinal tissue. we've stained the tissue such that the cones stand out as bright points. we'd like to use the densitometry functions to get population densities along the retina. the concern i have, is that the values used for thresholding seem to be somewhat subjective. we have (for our first trial) about 15 images, and its tough to find good levels other than just saying "that looks good", and what looks good on frame 1 may not on frame 10. i'm not a cell guy, and maybe counting cones is somewhat subjective in itself. can anyone give me some pointers on making this consistant, and/or point me towards some articles on the subject? this is pretty important, and i'd like to think the measurements have scientific validity. thanks dj meyer djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Tue Jul 27 04:55:42 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15693; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 07:51:03 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA09810; Tue, 27 Jul 93 08:55:42 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 08:55:42 -0400 Message-Id: <9307271255.AA09810@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: Density Slicing >Much deleted > is that the values used for thresholding seem to >be somewhat subjective. we have (for our first trial) about 15 images, and >its tough to find good levels other than just saying "that looks good", and >what looks good on frame 1 may not on frame 10. Actually, the routine in Image which does thresholding (or AutoThreshold in macro) are not arbitrary. They are based upon an algorithm from an IEEE journal by Ridler and Calvard (IEEE Transactions on Systems Man and Cybernetics, August 1978). It is basically a histogram based iterative testing technique. I have about two or three other thresholding macros written. Because every persons image is so differing it is difficult to find a thresholding technique that works for everyone. Perhaps the best technique you can employ is simply to apply a linear function between your desired output and the threshold. You can easily develop this in a macro. Your linear function will be created by you by knowing where a set of images should be thresholded. From then on, the same function can be applied to all the rest of your images. Here is some sample code that does this: PROCEDURE HistoThresh; VAR Minimum,Upper,index:integer; Match:real; TotalPixCount,PixCount:integer; BEGIN {Find the total number of pixels} SetOptions('Area, Std. Dev., Mean, Min/Max, Mode'); ResetCounter; RestoreCircle; Measure; Count := rCount; Minimum := rMin[count]; TotalPixCount := rArea[count]; SDeviation := rStdDev[count]; PixCount :=0; {here is a typical linear fucntion} MyScalefactor := 0.57588 + Sdeviation*0.40056; Match := 1.0 - (Sdeviation/100)*MyScaleFactor; {Loop till set percent of histogram population is reached} ShowHistogram; index :=Minimum; repeat PixCount := PixCount + Histogram[index]; PopPercent := PixCount/TotalPixCount; index :=index+1; until (PopPercent >= Match) Threshold := index-1; SetThreshold(Threshold); END; You can also threshold based on the standard of deviation like this: PROCEDURE StdDevThresh; VAR Count, Threshold:integer; Minimum,Upper:integer; StdDev,TheMean,Difference,MultFactor:real BEGIN MultFactor := GetNumber('Enter the number of Std Deviations past the mean to threshold',1.0); ResetCounter; SetOptions('Std. Dev., Mean, Min/Max'); Measure; Count := rCount; StdDev := rStdDev[Count]; TheMean := rMean[count]; Minimum := rMin[count]; Difference := TheMean-Minimum; Upper := Round(TheMean+ Difference); SetDensitySlice(Minimum,upper); ResetCounter; Measure; Count := rCount; StdDev := rStdDev[Count]; Threshold := TheMean+ round(MultFactor*StdDev); SetThreshold(Threshold); Showmessage('Threshold level =',Threshold); END; Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From Fredboyd@bmec.micro.umn.edu Tue Jul 27 07:05:18 1993 Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17511; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 11:58:42 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mailbox.mail.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c555f98001994; Tue, 27 Jul 93 12:02:16 -0500 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 93 12:05:18 CDT Message-Id: <9307271705.AA00260@mailbox.mail.umn.edu> Received: from pathobiology-212.med.umn.edu by mailbox.mail.umn.edu; Tue, 27 Jul 93 12:05:18 CDT From: "Fred Boyd, Ph.D." To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: DNA gels and notebook quality printing The problem of imaging DNA gels with a CCD camera is a little more complicated than Polaroid photography experience might suggest. CCD cameras are very sensitive to UV and IR, so both ends of the spectrum must be cut off. If you take too narrow a band you don't get enough sensitivity, so trade offs and some trial and error ("do the experiment!") are necessary. The following is specifically relevant to our Sony XC-75 camera. We have gotten fairly good results in imaging EtBr stained DNA gels with UV transillumination using a broad band pass filter we got from our FACS lab after some trial and error (tried about 5 different band pass filters). We are currently using a 585 +/- 42 nm filter that can be obtained from Omega Optical(802-254-2690). Another significant variable is the light box and filter inherent to that. We have found that the standard fotodyne UV box gives much more bulb signal (bad) with this filter than our cheaper Fisher UV box (312 nm, cat # FBTI 88). We are using this system routinely instead of polaroid and making notebook images with our Apple 600 DPI laser printer. These images are perfectly adequate for notebook use and represent a true economy versus instant film. Note limited grey-scale of 600 DPI gives some loss. Of course, publication quality and slide images can be made by more sophisticated printers (linotype 2400 DPI, etc.). Fred Boyd, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Laboratory Medicine and Pathology Cell Biology and Neuroanatomy University of Minnesota _______________________________________________________________________________ Box 609, UMHC Phone (612) 624-8150 420 Delaware St. SE FAX (612) 626-2444 Minneapolis, MN 55455 From gshiva@eng.umd.edu Tue Jul 27 09:11:48 1993 Received: from filter.eng.umd.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17645; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 12:07:18 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by filter.eng.umd.edu (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4) id AA14871; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 13:11:48 -0400 Rcpt to:mailed to nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 13:11:48 -0400 From: Shivakumar Gopalakrishnan Message-Id: <199307271711.AA14871@filter.eng.umd.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: How is the Image saved in Image? I have an application which takes in image file input as 1pixel = 1byte. and the above application is on Unix. What I would like to know is 1. How is the image stored normally? (i.e I just click on Save) 2. If I store the image normally will the following work. I transfer the file as a BINARY file to my Unix account. Will the 1 byte in the file correspond to the value of 1pixel in the image or it is stored as someother format? 3. Suppose I save the image as a Text file has anybody has a quick program to convert the ascii file into binary file (i.e 8 will be stored as 0001000 ) in C preferably? Or anybody can give me a quick outline on what I should do? Thanks for your help G. Shivakumar P.S: I am not still able to figure out what the output of FFT transform of the image means actually. From cammer@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu Tue Jul 27 09:27:59 1993 Received: from alsys1.aecom.yu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17894; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 12:26:56 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by alsys1.aecom.yu.edu id AA07186 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for nih-image@soils.umn.edu); Tue, 27 Jul 1993 13:31:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1993 13:27:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Cammer Subject: Re: How is the Image saved in Image? To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <199307271711.AA14871@filter.eng.umd.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think the answer to your question is this: when a file is saved by Image as TIFF it is in the format of header + picture. The picture is one pixel = one byte. If it is saved as raw, there is no header. We use the following to make tiff files into raw files on a Unix machine: dd if=[name.tiff] of=[name.raw] bs=256 skip=3 because the header is 768 bytes. I also suggest finding and downloading the program TIFFsniff. -mc From BERGRH@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU Sat Jul 27 06:50:51 1993 Received: from msuvx1.memst.edu (memstvx1.memst.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18141; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 12:43:25 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU by MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU (PMDF #3869 ) id <01H11D02AZPS9AMJE9@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU>; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 12:50:51 CST Date: 27 Jul 1993 12:50:51 -0600 (CST) From: BERGRH@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU Subject: Re: DNA gels and notebook quality printing To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H11D02AZPU9AMJE9@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU> X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" 27-JUL-1993 12:16:50.86 To: IN%"nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu" "Multiple recipients of list" CC: Subj: DNA gels and notebook quality printing Return-path: Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU (PMDF #3869 ) id <01H11C2NF2QO9AMKZO@MSUVX1.MEMST.EDU>; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 12:16:28 CST Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c556212002159; Tue, 27 Jul 93 12:12:51 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17651; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 12:07:43 -0500 Date: 27 Jul 1993 12:07:43 -0500 From: "Fred Boyd, Ph.D." Subject: DNA gels and notebook quality printing Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Errors-to: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-to: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-id: <9307271705.AA00260@mailbox.mail.umn.edu> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas The problem of imaging DNA gels with a CCD camera is a little more complicated than Polaroid photography experience might suggest. CCD cameras are very sensitive to UV and IR, so both ends of the spectrum must be cut off. If you take too narrow a band you don't get enough sensitivity, so trade offs and some trial and error ("do the experiment!") are necessary. The following is specifically relevant to our Sony XC-75 camer -----CCD chips are NOT sensitive to UV, falling off fairly rapidly around 400 nm. However, some manufacuturers coat the CCD with organic phosphors that extend the chip's sensitivity into the UV. My Photometrics Star I is so coated and has a quantum efficiency of ca 12% in the 300s. R. Howard Berg Associate Professor Biology Department Memphis State University bergrh@msuvx1.memst.edu From Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu Tue Jul 27 12:44:49 1993 Received: from cbis.ece.drexel.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18180; Tue, 27 Jul 1993 12:44:49 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from homer.ece.drexel.edu by cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU (5.67/1.34) id AA01007; Tue, 27 Jul 93 13:49:12 EDT Message-Id: <9307271749.AA01007@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> Date: 27 Jul 1993 13:33:24 U From: "Carl Gustafson" Subject: Re: How is the Image saved i To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply to: RE>How is the Image saved in I >I have an application which takes in image file input as 1pixel = 1byte >and the above application is on Unix. What I would like to know is >1. How is the image stored normally? (i.e I just click on Save) The image is stored in (usually) one of two formats: PICT or TIFF. Both formats contain more than just pixel data. They both specify the size of the image, often the color table used, resolution, etc. The actual image data starts at some offset from the start of the file, this offset depends on the file's format. >2. If I store the image normally will the following work. >I transfer the file as a BINARY file to my Unix account. >Will the 1 byte in the file correspond to the value of 1pixel > in the image or it is stored as someother format? What you want to do is use the EXPORT command in the File menu. This will allow you to save raw pixel data, with byte 1 containing pixel 1, etc. You will need to know the dimensions of the image to use it in any meaningful way once you open it up on your UNIX system. Carl Gustafson Imaging and Computer Vision Center Drexel University From herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu Wed Jul 28 01:56:52 1993 Received: from staff.tc.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA25616; Wed, 28 Jul 1993 06:52:11 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199307281152.AA25616@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from rash.med.umn.edu by staff.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c566979029403; Wed, 28 Jul 93 06:56:47 -0500 From: "Mike Herron" Reply-To: "Mike Herron" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: gel scanning wizzywig Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 06:56:52 -0500 I scanned a B&W Polaroid of an ethidium bromide stained agarose gel with an "8" bit Umax scanner last night. On the Polaroid I could see a very faint banding of the DNA that I wanted to document. After scanning I could no longer see the banding. I know that the Umax scanner is not going to give me the advertised 8 bits, but it raised a couple questions in my mind: 1.) Is the less than 8 bits due to cheap A/D chips as I have previously read? 2.) Are there (cheap) scanners out there that will give me my 8 bits worth? 3.) Is it possible (or reasonable) to swap the cheap A/D chips for better ones? I bring this slightly off topic subject up here because it might have some bearing on the >8 bits discussion....and since many of us use "non-scientific" scanners to enter images to NIH Image. ______________________________________________ / Mike Herron, Uof MN, Dept. of Deramatology / / herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu / ______________________________________________ From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Wed Jul 28 04:24:31 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA25784; Wed, 28 Jul 1993 07:19:52 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA14781; Wed, 28 Jul 93 08:24:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 08:24:31 -0400 Message-Id: <9307281224.AA14781@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: gel scanning wizzywig Mike Herron writes: {deletions} After scanning I could no longer >see the banding. I know that the Umax scanner is not going to give me the >advertised 8 bits, >but it raised a couple questions in my mind: >1.) Is the less than 8 bits due to cheap A/D chips as I have previously read? Your real problem is a multiple one and not really so much the number of bits of quantization. The dynamic range of the scanner (the photo-optics) are poor, not really the A/D. The A/D might be an 8 bit (although it most likely is not), but the photodiode array can't see much of a range of levels. >2.) Are there (cheap) scanners out there that will give me my 8 bits worth? You need to adjust the gain manually so that you can pick up the faint objects, although that may saturate some other (hopefully useless) parts of the image. I'm not aware of a scanner which lets you set the gain manually. You might also try an IR filter, if you can borrow one that fits over the photo, and try re scanning. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Wed Jul 28 04:46:31 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26040; Wed, 28 Jul 1993 07:41:51 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA17624; Wed, 28 Jul 93 08:46:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 93 08:46:31 -0400 Message-Id: <9307281246.AA17624@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: gel scanning wizzywig >You need to adjust the gain manually so that you can pick up the faint >objects, although that may saturate some other (hopefully useless) parts of >the image. I'm not aware of a scanner which lets you set the gain manually. As an addendum to this Since the scanner is auto gain, try eliminating darker objects from the polaroid either by cutting or covering. This will "fool" the auto gain into adjusting the gain down somewhat. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu Wed Jul 28 07:47:55 1993 Received: from cbis.ece.drexel.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26087; Wed, 28 Jul 1993 07:47:55 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from homer.ece.drexel.edu by cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU (5.67/1.34) id AA14758; Wed, 28 Jul 93 08:52:20 EDT Message-Id: <9307281252.AA14758@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> Date: 28 Jul 1993 08:55:07 U From: "Carl Gustafson" Subject: Re: gel scanning wizzywig To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply to: RE>gel scanning wizzywig Mike, If you are not interested in quantification, you might try changing the gamma curve used by the scanner, to emphasize the gray range that contains the bands you are interested in. This will only work if you can download the curve to the scanner. The manual for our Arcus scanner says that this can be done, but I don't have first-hand experience with this. (The Arcus, by the way, has the widest dynamic range of any we have looked at, is supposed to be 10 bits internally, and costs about $5000.) Carl Gustafson Imaging and Computer Vision Center Drexel University From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com Wed Jul 28 13:14:18 1993 Received: from nova (nova.sarnoff.com) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28512; Wed, 28 Jul 1993 13:14:18 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from maca.sarnoff.com by nova (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA25498; Wed, 28 Jul 93 14:18:29 EDT Message-Id: <9307281818.AA25498@nova> Date: 28 Jul 1993 14:10:38 U From: "Norm Hurst" Subject: Getting more than 8 bits To: "NIH Image user group" Getting more than 8 bits 7/28/93 2:04 PM Here is a way to get more than 8 bits out of an 8-bit image. Magic? Well, there's no free lunch. You have to trade off resolution to get it. And, to stay within Image's 8-bit number system, you have to give up some of the range. So this trick only works if: 1. you cannot get your light-range of interest to fill the 8-bit range of Image, 2. your gray-scale resolution is noise-limited (the noise acts as a dither signal), and 3. you are oversampled at least 2:1 (nothing of interest is less than 2-pixels wide). Still interested? Set the LUT slope to double what it is (see macro below), centered around the gray scale of interest. This will saturate other parts of the picture into black or white. Now "Apply LUT". The range of interest will contain only even or odd numbers (not both kinds). Now convolve with these taps: 0 0 0 1 2 1 0 0 0 This will filter out some noise (and blur the image). You should get a mix of even and odd values. You've gained an extra bit (on average). If your image is predominantly vertical stripes, turn the convolution sideways using these taps: 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 This will prevent filtering in the horizontal direction, preserving your stripes' resolution. If you want to get 2 extra bits, quadruple the LUT slope and convolve with this filter: 1 2 1 2 4 2 1 2 1 Note: You do not need to *exactly* double the range, but doing so results in a repeatable process. However, your best bet is to solve one of the three problems mentioned above! -Norm Hurst David Sarnoff Research Center ----------------------------- P.S.: Here's a macro for doubling the LUT around its current mean: macro 'Double LUT [D]'; var i,y:integer; mean :real; begin mean := 0; for i:=1 to 254 do begin mean := Mean + RedLUT[i]/254.0; end; for i:=1 to 254 do begin y := 2*(RedLUT[i]-mean) +mean; if y > 254 then y := 254; if y < 1 then y := 1; RedLUT[i]:=y; end; mean := 0; for i:=1 to 254 do begin mean := mean + GreenLUT[i]/254.0; end; for i:=1 to 254 do begin y := 2*(GreenLUT[i]-mean) +mean; if y > 254 then y := 254; if y < 1 then y := 1; GreenLUT[i]:=y; end; mean := 0; for i:=1 to 254 do begin mean := mean + BlueLUT[i]/254.0; end; for i:=1 to 254 do begin y := 2*(BlueLUT[i]-mean) +mean; if y > 254 then y := 254; if y < 1 then y := 1; BlueLUT[i]:=y; end; UpdateLUT; end; From grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU Wed Jul 28 05:16:57 1993 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29111; Wed, 28 Jul 1993 14:18:55 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by itsa.ucsf.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/GSC4.22) id AA40189; Wed, 28 Jul 1993 12:16:57 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1993 12:16:57 -0700 From: grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU (Gerald Cunha) Message-Id: <9307281916.AA40189@itsa.ucsf.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: CCD Cameras I could use some advice on CCD cameras. We're putting together a proposal to upgrade our image processing/analysis system which currently uses a Dage MTI CCD72 camera. We desire higher resolution (currently 768x493), more gray levels (currently 8 bits) and/or color. For around the $10K we envision spending it may be that the best bet is a Kodak MegaPlus 1.4 or 1.6 which only gives ubetter resolution. Does anyone have any experience/info on any other camera that meets some or all of our desires in or around our price range? Joel Brody Dept of Anatomy UCalSF grcunha@itsa.ucsf.edu From MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Thu Jul 29 08:44:25 1993 Received: from orange.cc.utexas.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09615; Thu, 29 Jul 1993 13:39:49 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from utxvms.cc.utexas.edu by utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (PMDF V4.2-12 #4544) id <01H147BWZ4XCHSJ5XM@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>; Thu, 29 Jul 1993 13:44:25 CDT Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 13:44:25 -0500 (CDT) From: MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: CCD Cameras To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H147BWZEKIHSJ5XM@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT We just wrestled that problem and found a similar solution. The MEGAPLUS 1.4 yields 1k x 1k spatial resolution and 8 bits (talk with Kodak they'll tell you the analog signal is actually worth 10 bits, the A/D pares it down to 8). There's also the MEGAPLUS 4.2 which yields 2k x 2k resolution and an 8 bit signal, pared down from 12 bits I was told. But beware, the pixel size on the 1.4 has been optimized for high resolution at an impressive 7 microns (square) the down side is the chip is like most NTSC cameras only 7mm x 9mm. The 4.2 sacrifices some resolution with 9 micron square pixels but offers a much more impressive field of view (18.5 mm x 18.5 mm, which about perfectly maps the 1" diameter C mout tube on a microscope. But of course the 4.2 starts at $25k. Another device to compare is the Hammamatsu C4742, it's just like the MEGAPLUS 1.4 in spatial resolution 1k x 1k but the pixels are bigger 12 microns square (thus it's more light sensitive, apparently it was optimized for astron- omy applications - for that reason it's dynamic range is also greater with a 10 bit digital signal). The catch is if you purchase the Perceptics frame grabber that supports it, the first thing that does is pare the signal down to the 8 bit Mac standard. Another company to investigate if you've got the $$$ is Photometrics, they'll put the same sensors used by Kodak in a custom configuration, complete with specialized frame grabber and some image processing software for about the price of the MEGAPLUS 4.2. We just ordered the MEGAPLUS 4.2 for some image analysis work on the microscope and I'm still waiting for delivery. Best of luck. P. Joyce Peter J. Joyce Office Phone (512) 471-5724 email= Received: by signal.poly.edu (5.65/1.34) id AA01490; Thu, 29 Jul 93 16:23:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 16:23:32 -0400 From: skim@signal.poly.edu (Seung Pil Kim) Message-Id: <9307292023.AA01490@signal.poly.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: CCD Cameras I am impressed by both high resolution CCD's and their costs. But I wonder if there are still needs for higher resolution imaging devices as always. I'm interested in this because I've developed an high resolution image reconstruction algorithm from low resoluiton multiple frame images. If someone need to overcome the sensor resolution limit it may be worthwhile to try our algorithm. Requirements are; i) need at least four frames of the same object (scene) with shifts of references. (This is usually automatically achieved by random shift while taking the multiple frames) ii) No moving objects in the scene (ideally). If you think this alogrithm is interesting enough to try, send your low-resolution frames with necessary information. I'll send you the result and see if you like it. S.P. Kim From bbug1@cc.swarthmore.edu Thu Jul 29 12:32:31 1993 Received: from oak.cc.swarthmore.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10698; Thu, 29 Jul 1993 15:27:54 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by oak.cc.swarthmore.edu (sendmail 5.57/oak04-22-93) id AA29736; Thu, 29 Jul 93 16:32:31 -0400 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 93 16:32:31 -0400 Message-Id: <9307292032.AA29736@oak.cc.swarthmore.edu> X-Mailer: Eudora/Swarthmore 1.3b116 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: bbug1@cc.swarthmore.edu Subject: using 'Import BioRad MRC-600 Images' macro in nih-Image Hello All, I have FTP'd a set of images from a BioRad confocal at a different University to my local Mac. I used 'binary' mode for all of the transfers and followed the file length to the byte. No bytes were added or removed in the process of getting the files to the Mac (a single image file is 393,580 bytes long). I can open a BioRad/COMOS file containing a single MRC-600 image with the 'import' command under the 'File' menu or the 'convert' command that is placed in the 'Special' menu after loading the 'input/output macros' macro. However, if I try to use the 'Import BioRad MRC 600 Z Series...' on a single image or a z-series, I get the following error alert: "This does not seem to be a BioRad Z Series Image File." Am I right to set the width to 768, the height to 512 and the offset to 76, when prompted by the 'edit' button in the 'Import BioRad MRC 600 Z Series...' dialog box? Any advice would be helpful at this point. Most of our data is in the form of z-series files, so right now, I can't do much with it. Is there a document somewhere in 'pub/nih-image' on zippy.nimh.nih.gov that explains how to use the 'Import BioRad MRC 600 Z Series...' macro? I couldn't find one. Thanks ahead of time for the assistance. Cheers, Bill Bug Biology Department Swarthmore College Swarthmore, PA 19081 (215) 328-7788 / (215) 328-8663 From roper@lamar.ColoState.EDU Thu Jul 29 10:30:30 1993 Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11552; Thu, 29 Jul 1993 17:25:53 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.82.126.25] by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA64780; Thu, 29 Jul 1993 16:30:30 -0600 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 16:30:30 -0600 Message-Id: <9307292230.AA64780@lamar.ColoState.EDU> To: From: roper@lamar.ColoState.EDU Subject: Re: CCD Cameras Regarding CCD cameras, has anyone had any experience with the Optronics LX-450A RGB Remote-Head Microscope Camera, also packaged and sold by Zeiss as the Color Video System ZVS-47E with extended sensitivity range? The demo looked impressive, and the cost at $7.5K for 768X494 pixels with excellent sensitivity seemed reasonable at first glance. But what about actual users' experience? -------------------------------------------- Stephen Roper, Professor of Anatomy and Neurobiology, Colorado State University, Ft. Collins CO 80523 INTERNET: Roper@Lamar.ColoState.Edu FAX:(303) 491-7907 PHONE: (303) 491-7808 From grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU Thu Jul 29 09:29:41 1993 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12182; Thu, 29 Jul 1993 18:31:43 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by itsa.ucsf.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/GSC4.22) id AA31547; Thu, 29 Jul 1993 16:29:41 -0700 Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 16:29:41 -0700 From: grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU (Gerald Cunha) Message-Id: <9307292329.AA31547@itsa.ucsf.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: More: CCD Cameras [ Peter - thanks for the reply; the info was very useful. I just received the specs for the Kodak MegaPlus 1.6 which seems a step up from the 1.4. The sensor provides an array of 1534x1024 whose active area is 13.8mm x 9.2 mm. Each pixel is 9 microns square. The control unit produces 10 bit output and it's about $2K more than the 1.4. Perceptics is apparently producing a board for it which should be out in a few months. Joel Brody Dept of Anatomy UCalSF grcunha@itsa.ucsf.edu 415-476-6746. From huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu Thu Jul 29 14:35:58 1993 Received: from PGL7.CHEM.NYU.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12318; Thu, 29 Jul 1993 18:36:13 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.122.133.136] (PGL6.CHEM.NYU.EDU) by pgl7.chem.nyu.edu (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA01495; Thu, 29 Jul 93 19:35:12 EDT Message-Id: <9307292335.AA01495@pgl7.chem.nyu.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 19:35:58 -0500 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (Edward J. Huff) Subject: Re: using 'Import BioRad MRC-600 Images' macro in nih-Image Content-Length: 0 > However, if I try to use the 'Import BioRad MRC 600 Z Series...' on a >single image or a z-series, I get the following error alert: > > "This does not seem to be a BioRad Z Series Image File." > >Am I right to set the width to 768, the height to 512 and the offset to 76, >when prompted by the 'edit' button in the 'Import BioRad MRC 600 Z >Series...' dialog box? No, that is the problem. Leave the settings alone. > >Any advice would be helpful at this point. Most of our data is in the form >of z-series files, so right now, I can't do much with it. Is there a >document somewhere in 'pub/nih-image' on zippy.nimh.nih.gov that explains >how to use the 'Import BioRad MRC 600 Z Series...' macro? I couldn't find >one. Using Image 1.50, choose File/Open and open the "Input/Output Macros" file in the Macros folder. Then choose Edit/Find and enter "does not seem" into the dialog box. You will find this text: RequiresVersion(1.50); width:=512; height:=1; offset:=0; SetImport('8-bit'); SetCustom(width,height,offset); Import(''); {Read header} width:=GetPixel(0,0)+GetPixel(1,0)*256; height:=GetPixel(2,0)+GetPixel(3,0)*256; nImages:=GetPixel(4,0)+GetPixel(5,0)*256; Dispose; hdrsize:= 76; picsize:=width*height; if (width<128) or (width>2048) or (height<128) or (height>2048) or (nImages<1) or (nImages>256) then begin PutMessage('This does not seem to be a Biorad MRC 600 Z Series file.'); As you can see, the macro is figuring out the proper width, height, and offset. The Import with a null string argument is the source of the dialog box. You are supposed to select the file, but NOT to change the custom import parameters. The reason it failed is that you entered a nonzero offset. This caused image to skip over the bytes at the beginning of the file which contain the actual width, height, and number of images. Image then tried to use the first pixel values from your image as the width, etc. -- Edward J. Huff huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (212)998-8465 Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003 From rivero@sol.cie.unizar.es Fri Jul 30 19:01:50 1993 Received: from relay.rediris.es by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18653; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 10:55:16 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from sol.cie.unizar.es (sol.unizar.es) by relay.rediris.es (PMDF V4.2-11 #4193) id <01H15UYJZ60G8X1EU7@relay.rediris.es>; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 18:00:37 GMT+2 Received: by sol.cie.unizar.es (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26311; Fri, 30 Jul 93 18:01:50 +0100 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 18:01:50 +0100 From: rivero@sol.cie.unizar.es (Alejandro Rivero) Subject: Re: CCD Cameras To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <9307301701.AA26311@sol.cie.unizar.es> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT BTW, could anyone tell me how much cost the CCD cameras in the series C30xx of HAMAMATSU? I would like to compare to spanish pricing, which I have requested... Alejandro Rivero Zaragoza Univ, Spain. From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Jul 30 11:01:44 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18689; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 10:59:42 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA04173; Fri, 30 Jul 93 11:17:44 -0400 Message-Id: <9307301517.AA04173@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 11:01:44 +0000 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: NIH Image 1.50 I have uploaded the released version of NIH Image 1.50, including source code. The updated manual and NonFPU version will follow before the end of next week. I have included with this message a list of the new features and bug fixes. --wayne V1.50 Change History ------------------- 1) A new submenu(Acquire) was added to the File menu for using Photoshop compatible acquisition plug-ins. The plug-ins must be stored in a folder named "Plug-ins" located either in the same folder as Image or in the System Folder. Using plug-ins, Image can acquire 8-bit grayscale, 8-bit indexed color, and 24-bit color images. 24-bit color images are stored in three slice stacks and displayed using 8-bit indexed color, similar to the way the Capture Color command works. The following plug-ins have been reported to work: Agfa PhotoScan Computer Eyes /RT Pro Datacopy 730GS scanner Ektron 1400 series camera(Eikonix 4096x4096 CCD) Gaphics Unlimited Kingfisher frame grabber(grayscale only) LaCie SilverScanner (8-bit grayscale, 8-bit color, 24-bit color) Kodak DCS-200 digital camera(grayscale and 24-bit color) Kodak Photo CD Image Browser Kodak RFS2035 scanner Microtek Scanmaker Neotech Image Grabber Perceptics PixelBuffer frame grabber Perceptics MegaGrabber frame grabber Perceptics PixelHR-24 frame grabber QuickImage 24 plug-in RasterOps Video Capture V1.3 with 24XLTV card Scantastic plug-in with Apple Color One scanner Scion LG-3 frame grabber Truvel scanner Voyager decompression plug-in The LaCie Silver scanner plug-in seems to be the fastest, smoothest and most reliable of the scanner plug-ins tested. A command was also added to the macro language for supporting acquisition plug-ins. It has the form Acquire('plug-in name'). Plug-ins are assumed to reside in a folder named "Plug-ins" located in the same folder as Image or in the System Folder. Full path names such as 'HD400:Plug-ins:Kodak DCS-200' are also supported. The plug-in support in NIH Image is based on code written by Greg Brown, Steven Gonzalo and Richard Ohlendorf of Ohlendorf Research, Inc. Ohlendorf Research has customized both Image and the Kodak DCS-100 digital camera plug-in to automate uploading of images from the camera. Ohlendorf Research, Inc. 818 LaSalle Street Ottawa, IL 61350 815-434-5622 Applelink--Abraham@AppleLink.com 2) Several problems with commands in the Binary submenu were fixed. These problems occurred when processing objects along the edge of the image. A related problem was fixed that sometimes caused the Skeletonize routine to never complete. 3) A function(UndoBufferSize) was added to the macro language that returns the current size of the Undo and Clipboard buffers. The Gel Plotting Macros use this function to display an error message when the Plots window needs to be larger than the current buffer size. 4) The Import command can now import 3D data sets such as multi-slice files from medical scanners. An optional fourth argument was also added to the SetCustom macro command to allow the number of slices to be specified. For example, when importing a data set with 128 256x256 slices and no header, use "SetCustom(256,256,0,128)". 5) If opened by the OpenSerial macro command, the serial I/O port is now closed when you quit image. 6) A four element built-in array(Scion) was added to the macro language to allow access to the Scion LG-3's I/O registers. The four elements of the array are defined as follows: Scion[1] 8-bit DAC(A) read/write Scion[2] 8-bit DAC(B) read/write Scion[3] 8-bit Control Reg 1 read only Scion[4] 4 digital out bits read/write Macros for setting and reading the LG-3 I/O registers are available in the file "Video". 7) Support was added for the external trigger feature of the Scion LG-3. 8) A new submenu(Filter) was added to the Enhance menu for using Photoshop compatible filter plug-ins. The plug-ins must be stored in a folder named "Plug-ins" located either in the same folder as Image or in the System Folder. A command was also added to the macro language for using filter plug-ins. It has the form Filter('plug-in name'). Plug-ins are assumed to reside in the aforementioned Plug-ins folder. 9) A command was added to the macro language for enabling and disabling "Photo Mode". The command "PhotoMode(true)" erases the screen and draws the contents of the currently active window. "PhotoMode(false)" restores the screen. 10) A bug(introduced in V1.49) in the macro interpreter was fixed that caused it to fail if the first argument in a procedure call started with a minus sign or a left parenthesis(e.g., "(a+b)/c"). This bug also affected macro commands, such as PutMessage, PutSerial and Write, that accept a variable number of arguments. 11) When using the "Highlight Saturated Pixels" option, the color used to display under saturated pixels is now yellow instead of blue. 12) Image can now open and edit text files up to 32K in size. The following command know how to deal with text windows: New, Open, Close, Save, Save As, Print, Cut, Copy, Paste, Clear, Font, Size, Load Macros(loads the macros contained in the current text window). 13) Images larger than printer page(normally 552 x 730 pixels) are now scaled to fit the page. This feature is only available when "Custom Grayscale Halftoning" is disabled. 14) A command(SurfacePlot) was added to the macro language for generating surface plots. A macro for generating a surface plot movie from a stack is in the macro file "Stacks2". 15) A macro command was added for doing 24-bit to 8-bit color conversion. It has the form "RGBToIndexed(str)", where str contains some combination of 'System LUT', 'Existing LUT, 'Custom LUT' and 'Dither'. Custom LUT and Dither are the defaults. The macro file "Color" contains a macro for doing a color merge of two stacks. 16) 16-bit TIFF files can now be imported. After the file has been imported, use the Rescale(aka Revert to Saved) command to find the optimum 16-bit to 8-bit mapping. Files that represent white as zero open inverted. 17) The AverageFrames macro command now optionally accepts two arguments. The first is a string containing some combination of 'Average', 'Integrate' and 'Video Rate Capture', and the second is the number of frames to average or integrate. For example, to integrate 128 frames, you would use the command AverageFrames('Integrate',128). 18) A bug was fixed that caused the X and Y coordinates of the center of the best fitting ellipse(X-Y Center) to always be integers. 19) A bug was fixed that caused the creation of freehand or segmented line selections to fail if density slicing was enabled. 20) A bug was fixed that caused a pasted image in a second window to disappear when using the Start Capturing command. 21) A bug was fixed that could sometimes cause the tools in the Tool window to be displayed incorrectly. 22) A command("SelectWindow('Title')") was added to the macro language for selecting windows my name. 23) A command("NewTextWindow('Title')") was added to the macro language for opening a new text window. In addition, the Writeln macro routine was updated so that it now displays text in the currently active text window. 24) A command(CaptureColor) was added to the macro language for capturing 24-bit color images into a three slice stack. 25) A command("GetThresholds(lower,upper)") was added to the macro language for obtaining the current lower and upper thresholds. In density slicing mode, it returns the lower and upper thresholds. In thresholding mode, lower is the current threshold and upper is set to 255. Both lower and upper are set to zero if neither thresholding or density slicing are enabled. A new macro named "Compute Percent Foreground" in the file "Measurements" uses GetThreshold to compute the percentage of the current selection that has been highlighted by thresholding. 26) A Find command was added to the Edit menu. It replaces Fill whenever a text window is active. Type Option-Command-F to repeatedly search for the same string. 27) A command(AverageSlices) was added to the macro language to provide access to the Average command in the Stacks Menu.. 28) A new submenu(Export) was added to the File menu for using Photoshop compatible export plug-ins. Two plug-ins were successfully tested: a plug-in that supports the Scion TV-3 video output card(used to drive video printers) and the PhaserPrint plug-in for the Tektronix Phaser IIsd dye sublimation printer. 29) Two new macro functions were added to the macro language for doing logical operations on bits. BitAnd(n1,n2) returns n1 AND n2. BitOr(n1,n2) returns n1 OR n2. 30) The Propagate LUT command now copies the "fill" colors needed when using the LUT tool or controls in the Map window to adjust pseudo-color LUTs. 31) The Change Colors command was replaced with a new command named Fix Colors that maps pixels with values of either 0 or 255 to the nearest matching color in the other 254 LUT entries. This usually corrects pseudo-color problems due to the way Image "hard wires" entries 0 and 255 to white and black respectively. 32) The About Box was redesigned. 33) The Surface Plot command now displays a dialog box that allows the user to specify the name and dimension of the plot window. 34) A bug was fixed in the Close and Dispose macro commands that could sometimes cause images with selections to become corrupted. 35) Balloon help was added to the menus lacking help messages and to most dialog boxes. From GRAD12@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Fri Jul 30 05:48:34 1993 Received: from SkyBlu.CCIT.Arizona.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20913; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 14:44:15 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU by CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU (PMDF V4.2-13 #2381) id <01H15K2CCW5C8ZE1LD@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU>; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 12:48:34 MST Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1993 12:48:34 -0700 (MST) From: GRAD12@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Subject: Standard reflectivity cards To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H15K2CI91U8ZE1LD@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To imaging experts, My question of two weeks ago, about stabilizing light intensity, was well rewarded with interesting and useful replies. Thanks to those who offered suggestions and comments. A common theme of the comments was to calibrate the light intensity and check its variation while doing the imaging work; either an adjustment could be made in real time, or a mathematical tranformation may be tried later, based on the observed variation in light intensity. This leads me to a se- cond question: For the purpose of calibrating to a known gray value, or even more than one known gray value, where might I obtain a set of standard reflectivity cards? I have the classic 18% gray card from Kodak, but that particular re- flectivity is not similar to most of my subject material. Consequently, when my system is configured to see my subject, I can't see the 18% gray card, and vice versa. I apparently need a set of reflectivity standards that range from ca. 40% to 80%, in 5% or 10% increments. Kodak doesn't appear to make such a thing, and I'm hitting dead ends everywhere else. Again, thanks in advance for your help, Paul Sheppard Tree-Ring Lab, Univ. of Arizona GRAD12@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU From shaque@physci.ucla.edu Tue Jul 30 07:42:42 1993 Received: from grizzly.ucla.edu (ncc.ucla.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22762; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 17:39:18 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from wylbur.physci.ucla.edu by grizzly.ucla.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA22453; Fri, 30 Jul 1993 15:44:20 -0700 Message-Id: <9307302244.AA22453@grizzly.ucla.edu> Date: 30 Jul 1993 15:42:42 -0800 From: "Samir Haque" Subject: RE- CCD CAMERAS--Has anyon To: "nih-image" RE: CCD CAMERAS Has anyone ever used a Panasonic 5100 as an acquistion source?? We've got one that we used for motion analysis and now would like to use it for microscopy...any known limitations esp. in uv range?? Any filter recommendations for uv?? I'm still waiting to hear from my vendor, but I know he's not up on micrscopy issues. Any help appreciated. Thanks in advance, Samir shaque@wylbur.physci.ucla.edu From kyzy@rice.edu Wed Jul 31 19:05:30 1993 Received: from moe.rice.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04294; Sun, 1 Aug 1993 00:00:57 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.42.105.7] (erinna.rice.edu) by moe.rice.edu (AA15588); Sun, 1 Aug 93 00:05:30 CDT Date: Sun, 1 Aug 93 00:05:30 CDT Message-Id: <9308010505.AA15588@moe.rice.edu> To: From: kyzy@rice.edu Subject: Re: CCD Cameras >We just wrestled that problem and found a similar solution. The MEGAPLUS 1.4 >yields 1k x 1k spatial resolution and 8 bits (talk with Kodak they'll tell you >the analog signal is actually worth 10 bits, the A/D pares it down to 8). >There's also the MEGAPLUS 4.2 which yields 2k x 2k resolution and an 8 bit >signal, pared down from 12 bits I was told. But beware, the pixel size on the >1.4 has been optimized for high resolution at an impressive 7 microns (square) >the down side is the chip is like most NTSC cameras only 7mm x 9mm. The 4.2 >sacrifices some resolution with 9 micron square pixels but offers a much more >impressive field of view (18.5 mm x 18.5 mm, which about perfectly maps the 1" >diameter C mout tube on a microscope. But of course the 4.2 starts at $25k. >Another device to compare is the Hammamatsu C4742, it's just like the >MEGAPLUS 1.4 in spatial resolution 1k x 1k but the pixels are bigger 12 microns >square (thus it's more light sensitive, apparently it was optimized for astron- >omy applications - for that reason it's dynamic range is also greater with a >10 bit digital signal). The catch is if you purchase the Perceptics frame >grabber that supports it, the first thing that does is pare the signal down >to the 8 bit Mac standard. > Do these cameras put out RS-170 video signal ? If not, what is their video output standard ? Does it take full advantage of the spatial resolution and how do these cameras work with A/D converters ? If these cameras have standard video output (I hope they do not), the NTSC standard will cut down the spatial resolution to the well-known limits (roughly 480x330 at best) and the ADC will chop down the extra image depth to the 8 bits we all know. kyzy@rice.edu (K. Zygourakis) From tamsky@cco.caltech.edu Sat Jul 31 15:58:03 1993 Received: from punisher.caltech.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04799; Sun, 1 Aug 1993 00:53:08 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from sandman.caltech.edu (sandman.cco.caltech.edu) by punisher.caltech.edu (4.1/DEI:4.41) id AA17746; Sat, 31 Jul 93 22:57:47 PDT From: tamsky@cco.caltech.edu (Marc A. Tamsky) Received: by sandman.caltech.edu (4.1/UGCS:4.41) id AA21618; Sat, 31 Jul 93 22:58:03 PDT Date: Sat, 31 Jul 93 22:58:03 PDT Message-Id: <9308010558.AA21618@sandman.caltech.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Looking for high-resolution fast CCD Cameras I noticed a growing CCD discussion, so I thought I'd ask: I have been asked to look for a fast (at least 30Hz) CCD camera with high resolution, at least 10 bit significant data, good linearity, and small chip size. This is for solar astronomy work. I need to be able to read it out at that speed, 30 frames/sec, and be able to sum or difference 8192 consecutive frames with whatever controller is available. Thanks in advance for any info. Marc Tamsky From gstuart@unixg.ubc.ca Sun Aug 1 05:29:30 1993 Received: from unixg.ubc.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09623; Sun, 1 Aug 1993 14:26:55 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by unixg.ubc.ca (4.1/1.14) id AA02069; Sun, 1 Aug 93 12:31:26 PDT Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1993 12:29:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Gregory Stuart Subject: Threshold question To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII When one uses the threshold command in Image (auto-threshold), how is the threshold value determined? Thanks --> Greg. From @dka.smhms.imperial.ac.uk:rph30@uk.ac.ic.sm.mailhost Mon Aug 2 06:26:24 1993 Received: from sun2.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15629; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 06:27:07 -0500 Return-Path: <@dka.smhms.imperial.ac.uk:rph30@uk.ac.ic.sm.mailhost> Via: uk.ac.imperial.smhms.dka; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 12:31:08 +0100 X-Nupop-Charset: English Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 12:26:24 CST From: Richard P Harbottle Sender: rph30@uk.ac.ic.sm.mailhost Reply-To: r.harbottle@smhms.imperial.ac.uk Message-Id: <44787.r.harbottle@sm.ic.ac.uk> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: RE: gel scanning wizzywig In Message Wed, 28 Jul 1993 06:57:55 -0500, Mike Herron writes: > I scanned a B&W Polaroid of an ethidium bromide stained agarose gel with an >"8" bit Umax scanner last night. On the Polaroid I could see a very faint >banding of the DNA that I wanted to document. After scanning I could no longer >see the banding. > > I know that the Umax scanner is not going to give me the advertised 8 bits, >but it raised a couple questions in my mind: > >1.) Is the less than 8 bits due to cheap A/D chips as I have previously read? > >2.) Are there (cheap) scanners out there that will give me my 8 bits worth? > >3.) Is it possible (or reasonable) to swap the cheap A/D chips for better ones? > >I bring this slightly off topic subject up here because it might have some >bearing on the >8 bits discussion....and since many of us use "non-scientific" >scanners to enter images to NIH Image. > I routinely scan b/w polaroids of EtBr stained DNA gels using Apple's Color scanner using Ofoto. It says it scans in 8bit grayscale. I don't really know the technical aspects of this but I know it works. I can then play about with the image in Image and faint bands can be brought out well enough for printing out on a laser, for lab notebooks, or for producing slides. On the price side of things I don't know if this scanner is cheap or not but having an Apple on the front in the UK probabely suggests not! Richard Harbottle Gene Therapy Group St Mary's Hospital Medical School Dept.of Biochemistry & Molecular Genetics Imperial College, London. From wayne@helix.nih.gov Mon Aug 2 10:25:20 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17617; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 10:23:09 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA16691; Mon, 2 Aug 93 10:41:39 -0400 Message-Id: <9308021441.AA16691@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 10:25:20 +0000 To: hyttinen@messi.uku.fi (Mika Hyttinen) From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Image 1.51 Cc: nih-image@soils.umn.edu, wayne@helix.nih.gov > Before this version[1.50b102], it was possible to copy and paste directly the >VALUES of a single greyscale histogram to a spreadsheet program like Ms >Excel (v. 3.0 or higher). Now I see that, if I'll copy the histogram, it is >a GRAPHICAL element. So, I have to use either "save as" or "export" to >extract the numerical values. This is rather inconvinient, since in most >cases (I believe), people are interested in the values - not the graph. >Mika Hyttinen >University of Kuopio, Dept. of Anatomy >70211 Kuopio, Finland, Europe I fixed this bug in V1.51, which is now on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. The 1.51 manual should be ready by the end of the week. --wayne From Mon Aug 2 20:57:00 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19604; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 16:24:58 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from HASARA5.BITNET (MAILGATE@HASARA5) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H19V36PZ8GAR2RWO@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 14:58:10 CDT Received: from HASARA5.BITNET by SARA.NL for nih-image@soils.umn.edu; 2 Aug 93 19:57 MET Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1993 19:57 +0100 (MET) From: PostMaster@SARA.NL Subject: Undeliverable mail To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H19VGF9LHKAR2RWO@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Your mail for "a337ard@diamond.sara.nl" could not be delivered. Reason: %SMAIL-E-MAILLOOP, looping mail detected. Your original mail follows: ---------------------------------------- Received: from vax3.sara.nl by aixtst1-e.sara.nl (5.65/1.37) id AA00627; Sun, 1 Aug 93 19:56:01 -2300 Received: from aixtst1-e.sara.nl by SARA.NL for a337ard@diamond.sara.nl; 2 Aug 93 19:56 MET Received: from vax2.sara.nl by aixtst1-e.sara.nl (5.65/1.37) id AA00611; Sun, 1 Aug 93 19:55:26 -2300 Received: from aixtst1-e.sara.nl by SARA.NL for a337ard@diamond.sara.nl; 2 Aug 93 19:56 MET Received: from vax2.sara.nl by aixtst1-e.sara.nl (5.65/1.37) id AA00576; Sun, 1 Aug 93 19:54:45 -2300 Received: from aixtst1-e.sara.nl by SARA.NL for a337ard@diamond.sara.nl; 2 Aug 93 19:55 MET Received: from vax2.sara.nl by aixtst1-e.sara.nl (5.65/1.37) id AA00550; Sun, 1 Aug 93 19:54:19 -2300 Received: from aixtst1-e.sara.nl by SARA.NL for a337ard@diamond.sara.nl; 2 Aug 93 19:55 MET Received: from vax2.sara.nl by aixtst1-e.sara.nl (5.65/1.37) id AA00521; Sun, 1 Aug 93 19:53:46 -2300 Received: from aixtst1-e.sara.nl by SARA.NL for a337ard@diamond.sara.nl; 2 Aug 93 19:54 MET Received: from vax2.sara.nl by aixtst1-e.sara.nl (5.65/1.37) id AA00497; Sun, 1 Aug 93 19:53:12 -2300 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17659; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 10:26:27 -0500 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1993 10:26:27 -0500 Message-Id: <9308021441.AA16691@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: wayne%helix.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu (Wayne Rasband) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Image 1.51 > Before this version[1.50b102], it was possible to copy and paste direct ly the >VALUES of a single greyscale histogram to a spreadsheet program like Ms >Excel (v. 3.0 or higher). Now I see that, if I'll copy the histogram, it is >a GRAPHICAL element. So, I have to use either "save as" or "export" to >extract the numerical values. This is rather inconvinient, since in most >cases (I believe), people are interested in the values - not the graph. >Mika Hyttinen >University of Kuopio, Dept. of Anatomy >70211 Kuopio, Finland, Europe I fixed this bug in V1.51, which is now on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. The 1.51 manual should be ready by the end of the week. --wayne From MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Mon Aug 2 13:42:26 1993 Received: from orange.cc.utexas.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20217; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 18:38:01 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from utxvms.cc.utexas.edu by utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (PMDF V4.2-12 #4544) id <01H1A32PO18WHSJJHY@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>; Mon, 2 Aug 1993 18:42:26 CDT Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1993 18:42:26 -0500 (CDT) From: MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: CCD Cameras To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H1A32PO18YHSJJHY@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT It's a closed circuit system. The technology is called full-frame transfer, the data transfer off the CCD chip is different from NTSC (RS-170) video, rather than interline transfer where the data is read off the chip with constant refresh, full-frame transfer uses a mechanical shutter to block off the chip while it Xfers all the information on the chip. Therefore creating some time lapse while acheiving high spatial resolution, effectively killing your chances of making a movie, the frame rate of transfer for these cameras is nothing like you're used to. With a frame grabber capable of buffering the entire high-res. image these images can be captured rather handily to the Mac. But alas the Mac video standard being 8 bits still limits us to 8 bit input, which is taken care of at least by Perceptics with their framegrabber cards, if not already limited by the camera. Peter J. Joyce Office Phone (512) 471-5724 email= Received: from VMSmail by vms2.macc.wisc.edu; Tue, 03 Aug 93 08:27 CDT Message-Id: <23080308273878@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 93 08:27 CDT From: Charles Thomas Subject: Re: using 'Import BioRad MRC-600 Images' macro in nih-Image To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu",CHARLEST Although we've developed our own NIH Image macro for extracting Bio-Rad MRC-600 Z-series, I also noticed the included macro last week. I transfered a z-series with ftp and Fetch to our Quadra and put it in its own folder. I then loaded the macro from the "Input and Output" folder of the macro section into NIH Image memory. From there, I ran it, selected the z-series and basically just said yes to everything, I didn't change the "custom" settings. It extracted each image.. each image flashed from bio-rad positive to Macintosh negative (as the mac 0 = white lookup table was applied), then when all had been extracted, you could save off the whole thing as an NIH Image stack. Just wanted to let you know that I didn't have any problems with this macro. From brown@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu Tue Aug 3 10:30:21 1993 Received: from alsys1.aecom.yu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24639; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 15:25:43 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.98.90.119] (garbo.aecom.yu.edu) by alsys1.aecom.yu.edu with SMTP id AA15197 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for ); Tue, 3 Aug 1993 16:30:14 -0400 From: "Lucy Brown" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 93 16:30:21 CST Message-Id: <59422.brown@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu> X-Popmail-Charset: English To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: inquiry Inquiry 1: Is anyone planning to add the Sokoloff equation and data entry so that glucose utilization can be analyzed by NIH image? Would anyone else besides myself like it? Inquiry 2: Has anyone programmed centroid location for particles? Thanks. Lucy Brown From jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu Tue Aug 3 07:03:20 1993 Received: from Arizona.edu (Hopey.Telcom.Arizona.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24851; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 16:01:31 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pirl.lpl.arizona.edu by Arizona.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2381) id <01H1B7WTOO5S9EEGCB@Arizona.edu>; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 14:05:48 MST Received: by pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (4.1/SMI-3.2 LPL-MCN 1.25 91/08/23) id AA10730; Tue, 3 Aug 93 14:03:20 MST Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1993 14:03:20 -0700 (MST) From: jmorrow@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (John Morrow) Subject: free mem and macros To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <9308032103.AA10730@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Is there any way to determine how much memory is available from within a macro? Thanks in advance... John Morrow Image Processing for Teaching University of Arizona From Wed Aug 4 19:37:22 1993 Received: from uniwa (uniwa.uwa.edu.au) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26212; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 22:33:07 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from localhost (localhost) by uniwa (8.1C/8.1) with internal id LCZ11226; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 11:37:22 +0800 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 11:37:22 +0800 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: warning: cannot send message for 12 hours Message-Id: <199308040337.LCZ11226@uniwa> To: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... Warning: message still undelivered after 12 hours Will keep trying until message is 4 days old ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu (mail.tc.umn.edu [128.101.131.1]) by uniwa (8.1C/8.1) with SMTP id WAA15034; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 22:30:50 +0800 Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c5e6bdd017483; Tue, 3 Aug 93 08:45:06 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22784; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 08:40:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 08:40:09 -0500 Message-Id: <23080308273878@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Charles Thomas To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: using 'Import BioRad MRC-600 Images' macro in nih-Image Although we've developed our own NIH Image macro for extracting Bio-Rad MRC-600 Z-series, I also noticed the included macro last week. I transfered a z-series with ftp and Fetch to our Quadra and put it in its own folder. I then loaded the macro from the "Input and Output" folder of the macro section into NIH Image memory. From there, I ran it, selected the z-series and basically just said yes to everything, I didn't change the "custom" settings. It extracted each image.. each image flashed from bio-rad positive to Macintosh negative (as the mac 0 = white lookup table was applied), then when all had been extracted, you could save off the whole thing as an NIH Image stack. Just wanted to let you know that I didn't have any problems with this macro. From Wed Aug 4 20:38:05 1993 Received: from uniwa (uniwa.uwa.edu.au) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26421; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 23:33:45 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from localhost (localhost) by uniwa (8.1C/8.1) with internal id MDX17009; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 12:38:05 +0800 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 12:38:05 +0800 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199308040438.MDX17009@uniwa> To: ----- The following addresses failed ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 : line 1: ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu (mail.tc.umn.edu [128.101.131.1]) by uniwa (8.1C/8.1) with SMTP id IAA23668; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 08:06:51 +0800 Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c5ed460021542; Tue, 3 Aug 93 16:10:57 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24940; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 16:05:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 16:05:59 -0500 Message-Id: <9308032103.AA10730@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: jmorrow%pirl.lpl.arizona.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu (John Morrow) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: free mem and macros Is there any way to determine how much memory is available from within a macro? Thanks in advance... John Morrow Image Processing for Teaching University of Arizona From Wed Aug 4 20:38:21 1993 Received: from uniwa (uniwa.uwa.edu.au) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26442; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 23:34:06 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from localhost (localhost) by uniwa (8.1C/8.1) with internal id MEB17009; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 12:38:21 +0800 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 12:38:21 +0800 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199308040438.MEB17009@uniwa> To: ----- The following addresses failed ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 : line 1: ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu (mail.tc.umn.edu [128.101.131.1]) by uniwa (8.1C/8.1) with SMTP id HAA23173; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 07:56:14 +0800 Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c5ecbe9021125; Tue, 3 Aug 93 15:34:50 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24696; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 15:30:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 15:30:03 -0500 Message-Id: <59422.brown@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: "Lucy Brown" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: inquiry Inquiry 1: Is anyone planning to add the Sokoloff equation and data entry so that glucose utilization can be analyzed by NIH image? Would anyone else besides myself like it? Inquiry 2: Has anyone programmed centroid location for particles? Thanks. Lucy Brown From Wed Aug 4 23:34:29 1993 Received: from uniwa (uniwa.uwa.edu.au) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA27103; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 02:30:22 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from localhost (localhost) by uniwa (8.1C/8.1) with internal id PEH01878; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 15:34:29 +0800 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 15:34:29 +0800 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown Message-Id: <199308040734.PEH01878@uniwa> Apparently-To: ----- The following addresses failed ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 : line 1: ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Return-Path: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu (mail.tc.umn.edu [128.101.131.1]) by uniwa (8.1C/8.1) with SMTP id WAA15034; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 22:30:50 +0800 Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c5e6bdd017483; Tue, 3 Aug 93 08:45:06 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22784; Tue, 3 Aug 1993 08:40:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 08:40:09 -0500 Message-Id: <23080308273878@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Charles Thomas To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: using 'Import BioRad MRC-600 Images' macro in nih-Image Although we've developed our own NIH Image macro for extracting Bio-Rad MRC-600 Z-series, I also noticed the included macro last week. I transfered a z-series with ftp and Fetch to our Quadra and put it in its own folder. I then loaded the macro from the "Input and Output" folder of the macro section into NIH Image memory. From there, I ran it, selected the z-series and basically just said yes to everything, I didn't change the "custom" settings. It extracted each image.. each image flashed from bio-rad positive to Macintosh negative (as the mac 0 = white lookup table was applied), then when all had been extracted, you could save off the whole thing as an NIH Image stack. Just wanted to let you know that I didn't have any problems with this macro. From wayne@helix.nih.gov Wed Aug 4 08:38:13 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28293; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 08:36:03 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA25642; Wed, 4 Aug 93 08:54:44 -0400 Message-Id: <9308041254.AA25642@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 08:38:13 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: inquiry >Inquiry 1: Is anyone planning to add the Sokoloff equation and data entry >so that glucose utilization can be analyzed by NIH image? Would anyone >else besides myself like it? Check out Image/MG, a spinoff of NIH Image that supports quantitative evaluation of cerebral blood flow, glucose metabolism, and protein synthesis. It's in the /pub/image/image_spinoffs on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. >Inquiry 2: Has anyone programmed centroid location for particles? NIH Image can find the center of the best fit ellipse. --wayne From wayne@helix.nih.gov Wed Aug 4 08:40:33 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28333; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 08:38:23 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA25655; Wed, 4 Aug 93 08:57:04 -0400 Message-Id: <9308041257.AA25655@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1993 08:40:33 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: free mem and macros >Is there any way to determine how much memory is available from within a >macro? There is currently no way to find out from within a macro how much memory is available. --wayne From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Wed Aug 4 06:28:28 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28607; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 09:23:58 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA06742; Wed, 4 Aug 93 10:28:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 10:28:28 -0400 Message-Id: <9308041428.AA06742@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: free mem and macros >>Is there any way to determine how much memory is available from within a >>macro? > >There is currently no way to find out from within a macro how much memory >is available. There isn't any simple way. However, you could set up a usercode call, find out in pascal and pass back the answer in a user array. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Wed Aug 4 08:17:45 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29233; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 11:13:15 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA23859; Wed, 4 Aug 93 12:17:45 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 12:17:45 -0400 Message-Id: <9308041617.AA23859@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: Threshold question >When one uses the threshold command in Image (auto-threshold), how is the >threshold value determined? Thanks --> Greg. As mentioned last week: Actually, the routine in Image which does thresholding (or AutoThreshold in macro) are not arbitrary. They are based upon an algorithm from an IEEE journal by Ridler and Calvard (IEEE Transactions on Systems Man and Cybernetics, August 1978). It is basically a histogram based iterative testing technique. It also has a formula associated with it, which is in a followup to the article described above. See Comments on Picture Thresholding Using an Iterative Selection Method, by H.J. Trussel. Same journal May 1979 Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From bbug1@cc.swarthmore.edu Wed Aug 4 11:30:23 1993 Received: from oak.cc.swarthmore.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00459; Wed, 4 Aug 1993 14:25:55 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by oak.cc.swarthmore.edu (sendmail 5.57/oak04-22-93) id AA28598; Wed, 4 Aug 93 15:30:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 93 15:30:23 -0400 Message-Id: <9308041930.AA28598@oak.cc.swarthmore.edu> X-Mailer: Eudora/Swarthmore 1.3b116 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: bbug1@cc.swarthmore.edu Subject: BioRad MRC-600 images to Mac To all who have offered advice on getting MRC-600 images into nih Image on the Mac: Thank you all. I've got things working fine now. The ftp transfer had been done correctly. Due to my own ignorance of the program, I was just having trouble using Image. When I followed all the advice I was given and just let Image do the work - not reset any of the parameters -, all went well. Thanks agiain for all the advice. I will post a summary on this list soon. Cheers, Bill Bug Biology Department Swarthmore College Swarthmore, PA 19081 (215) 328-7788 / (215) 328-8663 From cls7@cornell.edu Thu Aug 5 04:30:25 1993 Received: from POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03890; Thu, 5 Aug 1993 07:25:58 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [132.236.236.78] (CU-DIALUP-0304.CIT.CORNELL.EDU) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu with SMTP id AA05503 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu); Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:30:25 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:30:25 -0400 Message-Id: <199308051230.AA05503@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: cls7@cornell.edu (Carl Schofield) X-Sender: cls7@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu Subject: Dialog size I am using a 12" Apple RGB monitor and noticed that large dialog boxes in Image (particularly the Import one) are cut-off at the bottom. Any way to re-size the dialogs for smaller monitors? From Sylwester_Chyb@agcs.psu.edu Mon Aug 5 04:18:53 1993 Received: from psupena.psu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04185; Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:10:03 -0500 Return-Path: Return-Receipt-To: Sylwester Chyb Received: from agcs.psu.edu (agcs.cas.psu.edu) by psupen.psu.edu (PMDF #3049 ) id <01H1DQF368HC8YA0W5@psupen.psu.edu>; Thu, 5 Aug 1993 09:16:43 EST Date: 05 Aug 1993 09:18:53 -0500 From: Sylwester Chyb Subject: RE: Dialog size To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H1DQF371EQ8YA0W5@psupen.psu.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >I am using a 12" Apple RGB monitor and noticed that large dialog boxes in >Image (particularly the Import one) are cut-off at the bottom. Any way to >re-size the dialogs for smaller monitors? Try control panel called "Open-wide" written by James W. Walker and available from one of the major FTP sites (e.g. U. Michigan in system.extensions/cdev subdirectory as openwide352). You can use it to custom resize dialog boxes. I hope it does what you need. Good Luck, Dr. Sylwester Chyb Dept. Entomology, Penn State Univ, University Park, PA 16802 From wayne@helix.nih.gov Thu Aug 5 08:44:01 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04467; Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:41:53 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA29291; Thu, 5 Aug 93 09:00:37 -0400 Message-Id: <9308051300.AA29291@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1993 08:44:01 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Dialog size >I am using a 12" Apple RGB monitor and noticed that large dialog boxes in >Image (particularly the Import one) are cut-off at the bottom. Any way to >re-size the dialogs for smaller monitors? You can use ResEdit to re-size the dialog boxes. It's availably by anonymous FTP from ftp.apple.com, in the /dts/mac/tools/resedit directory. --wayne From zeissler@gapnet.nist.gov Mon Aug 5 10:05:00 1993 Received: from gapnet.nist.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA05963; Thu, 5 Aug 1993 14:03:04 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308051903.AA05963@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 5 Aug 93 15:05:00 EST From: "ZEISSLER" Subject: Remote camera op with Image To: "nih-image" I am using Image 1.44VDM to run a camera using Perceptic's PixelPipeline card. This system is situated in a clean room, so I would very much prefer to run the camera remotely over our Ethernet in the comfort of my office. Even if I mount the clean room disk, move its preference files onto my office system, and have program-linking on, my office system still can't find the frame grabber. Any suggestions on remote camera operation would be much appreciated. zeissler@gapnet.nist.gov From PITP@EZINFO.vmsmail.ethz.ch Fri Aug 6 05:04:07 1993 Received: from bernina.ethz.ch by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08980; Fri, 6 Aug 1993 05:04:07 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308061004.AA08980@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from EZINFO by bernina.ethz.ch id <17735-0@bernina.ethz.ch>; Fri, 6 Aug 1993 12:08:30 +0200 Received: from EZINFO.vmsmail.ethz.ch by ETHZ.vmsmail.ethz.ch with MAIL-11 (pp-mail11d 0.0); Fri, 6 Aug 93 12:08:30 MET DST Date: Fri, 6 Aug 93 12:08:30 MET DST From: "PLUMER,PIERRE" X-Mail11-To: ETHZ::"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Subject: Plot Profile Data in Array ? To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Hello everybody, I am trying to analyze fluids in glass capillaries using Image 1.51 and a FrameGrabber. To do this I first need to detect these capillaries (using a macro that I have written). After processing the image that I have captured with a High resolution CCD camera with this macro, I am using PlotProfile to situate the capillaries in the picture. My problem is that I would like to use the data of the PlotProfile command in my macro. Is this data available in an array? If not, can these data be written into an array, and how is this done? A differnt question: I also want to do a continous detection of horizontal lines in a ROI. Has anybody already done something like this? Is there a macro or a procedure available? Thank you very much in advance Pit Plumer Institute for Food Technology/Food Processing Swiss Federal Institute of Technology CH-8092 Zurich From frodes@ibg.uit.no Fri Aug 6 08:27:10 1993 Received: from benoni.Uit.No by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09266; Fri, 6 Aug 1993 06:24:32 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from benoni by ppenoni.uit.no with SMTP (PP) id <12619-0@ppenoni.uit.no>; Fri, 6 Aug 1993 13:28:51 +0000 Received: from darwin.Ibg.Uit.No by benoni.uit.no (5.65+IDA/Babel-1.15/ABaa-1.2/Ultrix) id AAbenoni12615; Fri, 6 Aug 1993 13:28:47 +0200 Received: from [129.242.200.137] (mac-if.Ibg.Uit.No) by darwin.ibg.uit.no (4.1/ABaa-2.0mini) id AA05444; Fri, 6 Aug 93 13:23:03 +0200 Message-Id: <9308061123.AA05444@darwin.ibg.uit.no> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 13:27:10 -0500 To: nih-image From: frodes@ibg.uit.no (Frode Skarstein) X-Sender: frodes@darwin.ibg.uit.no Subject: Re: Color analysis Cc: frodes@ibg.uit.no Earlier this summer I posted a question regarding color analysis using Image. I got this answer claiming Image to be capable of "capturing" 24-bit color: >Image can capture 24-bit color using either the Capture Color or Acquire >commands. The color image is stored as a three slice(red, green and blue) >stack. To measure red coloration all you have do is measure mean >intensities in the red slice. (Stuff deleted) >--wayne Now, my situation is that I have my images from a Kodak PHOTO-CD, saved as TIFF files with 24 bit color on my harddisk. So I am not interested in Capturing files, but simply opening or importing them as ordinary TIFF files. There is probaly a very obvious way of doing this, but I just can't work it out... Could anyone help me? >In the near future, I plan to add the ability >to convert from RGB to HSI(hue, saturation, intensity), which will allow >intensities of color images to be measured and also allow thresolding based >on hue. > >--wayne Also, when is the ability to convert RBG to HSI being added?This would be great, I have been using Photoshop to do both this and my color analysis, but would prefer using Image when I get things worked out... Thanks! Frode Skarstein Dep. of Ecology and Zoology U. of Tromsoe Norway From Carl_Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu Fri Aug 6 06:40:27 1993 Received: from cbis.ece.drexel.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09350; Fri, 6 Aug 1993 06:40:27 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from homer.ece.drexel.edu by cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU (5.67/1.34) id AA06994; Fri, 6 Aug 93 07:44:53 EDT Message-Id: <9308061144.AA06994@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> Date: 6 Aug 1993 07:44:41 U From: "Carl Gustafson" Subject: Re: Remote camera op with Im To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply to: RE>Remote camera op with Image What you want to do is to control the clean-room mac from your desk. To do this, you need a program like Timbuktu or Carbon Copy Mac. These products let you operate the remote mac from yours. Essentially, you will see the clean room mac's display on yours, with all of your mouse and keyboard actions going to the clean room. Carl Gustafson Imaging and Computer Vision Center Drexel University (with the hinderance of Clay, 1 year old) From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Aug 6 09:01:23 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10070; Fri, 6 Aug 1993 08:59:16 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA02204; Fri, 6 Aug 93 09:18:05 -0400 Message-Id: <9308061318.AA02204@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 09:01:23 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Plot Profile Data in Array ? > My problem is that I would like to use the data of the PlotProfile command in >my macro. Is this data available in an array? If not, can these data be >written into an array, and how is this done? The Plot Profile data is currently not available from within the macro language. This is something I plan to add in V1.52. In the meantime, you could write a Think Pascal routine in User.p to access this data. --wayne From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Aug 6 10:43:27 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10597; Fri, 6 Aug 1993 10:41:21 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA02418; Fri, 6 Aug 93 11:00:09 -0400 Message-Id: <9308061500.AA02418@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1993 10:43:27 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Color analysis >Now, my situation is that I have my images from a Kodak PHOTO-CD, saved as >TIFF files with 24 bit color on my harddisk. So I am not interested in >Capturing files, but simply opening or importing them as ordinary TIFF >files. There is probaly a very obvious way of doing this, but I just can't >work it out... Could anyone help me? I have included a macro that can import a Photoshop 2.0 or 2.5 uncompressed 24-bit TIFF file into NIH Image. >Also, when is the ability to convert RBG to HSI being added?This would be >great, I have been using Photoshop to do both this and my color analysis, >but would prefer using Image when I get things worked out... V1.51 has the ability to convert RGB to HSV. --wayne procedure ImportPhotoshop(offset:integer); { Imports a 24-bit, uncompressed Photoshop TIFF file into a 3-slice stack. } var width,height,temp,stack,i,j:integer; begin SetImport('8-bit; Invert'); width:=GetNumber('Width:',512); height:=GetNumber('Height:',512); SetCustom(3*width,height,offset,1); Import(''); temp:=PicNumber; SetNewSize(width,height); MakeNewStack('RGB'); AddSlice; AddSlice; stack:=PicNumber; for i:=0 to width-1 do begin for j:=1 to 3 do begin ChoosePic(temp); GetColumn(3*i+(j-1),0,height); ChoosePic(stack); ChooseSlice(j); PutColumn(i,0,height); end; end; SelectSlice(1); SelectPic(temp); Dispose; end; macro 'Import Photoshop 2.0 24-bit TIFF'; begin ImportPhotoshop(196); end; macro 'Import Photoshop 2.5 24-bit TIFF'; begin ImportPhotoshop(598); end; From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Sat Aug 7 06:00:21 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15560; Sat, 7 Aug 1993 08:56:00 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-13 #2884) id <01H1GK4MMVW0001HEZ@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Sat, 7 Aug 1993 10:00:21 EDT Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1993 10:00:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: Sticky PicNumbers, finally... To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H1GK4MNOTE001HEZ@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT zippy is down just now (apparently), or I would have uploaded the code. Starting from 1.51, I added a new function pidNumber, which returns a negative permanant ID number for the current image. I modified selectPic/choosePic to accept these negative values and find the current picNumber automatically if presented with a pid value rather than a picNumber value. If you would like to see this in mainline image, you know who to ask... I am about to start a third cut on a better User.p package interface (to make it easier to merge User.p macro language callable functions into a new version of image). As the number of functions I have in my package starts to grow, the ide keeping a separate global variable for each function becomes more unattractive. Using hard coded integer opcode numbers is even worse. So I plan to define an interface that lets code in User.p define directly callable macro procedures and functions, which can be called from a macro directly, i.e. Convolve16u(in,out,mask,flag) instead of UserCode(Convolve16u,in,out,mask)... BTW I am also writing a 16 bit convolution which supports nonsquare kernels, use of an image as a kernel, does the right thing around the edges, and is as fast as possible (literally).... Also, it will be possible to merge the code into the next release without having to edit macros2.pglobals, etc., (provided of course that the general interface makes it into the mainline...). From hammer@wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu Sun Aug 8 22:01:57 1993 Received: from wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21298; Sun, 8 Aug 1993 22:01:57 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.171.24.10] (McHammer.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu) by wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07230; Sun, 8 Aug 93 17:06:17 HST Date: Sun, 8 Aug 93 17:06:17 HST Message-Id: <9308090306.AA07230@wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu> To: From: Ron Hammer Subject: Re: inquiry >Inquiry 1: Is anyone planning to add the Sokoloff equation and data entry >so that glucose utilization can be analyzed by NIH image? Would anyone >else besides myself like it? >Inquiry 2: Has anyone programmed centroid location for particles? >Thanks. > >Lucy Brown You have probably read Wayne's reply by now regarding Image/MG. We use this program for all our analysis of 2DG films. It was modified several years ago by Gunter Mies, who was visiting NIH on sabbatical at the time (he might be back there now). I understand that Gunter cross-checked results from his program against those of the program which Lou Sokoloff uses and they were identical. The latest version on zippy is based on Image v1.44, so it is not quite up to date. However, it serves our purposes and I highly recommend it. On another topic, I just received a macro written by Karl Beykirch at UCLA which allows one to use Image to count silver grains from emulsion autoradiographs. This macro allows counting of overlapping grains and fixes the look-up table to eliminate any black or white pixels grabbed, storing the absolute counts and calibrated density measurements in the results window. I have demoed the macro, but not yet fully tested it. It looks useful and appropriate. I am sure that Karl is willing to distribute it and would like feedback. He might not be on the mailing list, so those interested may contact him at: karl@loni.ucla.edu Ron Hammer Depts. Anatomy and Pharmacology University of Hawaii School of Medicine From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@ulb.ac.be Tue Aug 10 12:27:13 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01706; Tue, 10 Aug 1993 11:26:06 -0500 Return-Path: <@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@ulb.ac.be> Received: from rc1.vub.ac.be by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 10 Aug 93 18:30:29 +0200 Received: from is1e.vub.ac.be by rc1.vub.ac.be (4.1/RC1-930728) id AA09442; Tue, 10 Aug 93 18:32:01 +0200 Received: by is1e.vub.ac.be (5.61/BFUCC-920211) id AA25352; Tue, 10 Aug 93 18:27:14 +0200 From: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be (Van Helden Jacques) Message-Id: <9308101627.AA25352@is1e.vub.ac.be> Subject: Pascal examples for plug-ins ? To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 93 18:27:13 MDT Cc: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Hello, The belgian bouncer is back. First of all, I apologize to everybody for the mail-pollution I triggered. Let's hope this message will not provoke a new catastrophe. Here is my question: has someone examples of plug-in filters for NIH-image written in Pascal ? Thanks. jvanheld@ulb.ac.be From hammer@wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu Tue Aug 10 18:07:39 1993 Received: from wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04694; Tue, 10 Aug 1993 18:07:39 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.171.24.10] (McHammer.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu) by wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11257; Tue, 10 Aug 93 13:11:43 HST Date: Tue, 10 Aug 93 13:11:42 HST Message-Id: <9308102311.AA11257@wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: Ron Hammer Subject: Re: Posting on Image list >Date: Tue, 10 Aug 93 15:52:11 PDT >From: karl%pluto.dnet@loni.ucla.edu >To: "hammer@wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu"%GATE.dnet@loni.ucla.edu >Subject: Re: Posting on Image list > >To: Anyone interested in my grain counting macros > >I am pleased that some people are interested in the grain counting >macros that I wrote. As I don't do grain counting myself, they have not >been tested in 'real world' image analysis, and I have had limited >feedback to help me refine them. I welcome feedback for debugging and >finding missing essential features, BUT I will be on vacation until Aug. >28 and so cannot respond immediately.The macros are relatively simple >and straightforward, so feel free to edit them. There are four macros >that ASSIST in grain counting, but it is far from automatic. > >You must set the Max Measurements to 1000 in the Analyze Options dialog >box, and can make a maximum of 999 measurements. Use Set Scale to get >areas and densities in real units. > >GRAINS MUST BE DISTINGUISHABLE BY GRAY SCALE ALONE! Image enhancement >and editing is to be done beforehand. > >Fix LUT - changes black(255) and white(0) pixels to very dark gray(254) >and very light gray(1), so that all pixels are within the LUT. > >Calibrate Area per Grain - initializes a few things, and expects that >you have selected several 'typical' grains for an average calibration >with a selection tool. It asks for the number of grains selected, >calculates and stores the calibration. > >Count Grains in Area - expects that you have selected your area of >interest with a selection tool, and previously calibrated the grains. >Grays out and numbers your area, and records area, number of grains, and >density (grains/unit area) in the results table. > >Verify Calibration - Works like 'Calibrate Area per Grain' but does not >change anything. Simply reports previous calibration and verification. >If the discepency is too large you must re-'Calibrate Area per Grain'. >THIS RESETS THE RESULTS TABLE SO >>>!!SAVE IT FIRST!!<<< > > >Have fun, and I hope their useful. >Reply to: (after Aug. 28) >karl@loni.ucla.edu >regardless where this message appears to come from. > >--------MACRO FILE FOLLOWS---------------------------------------------- >{Grain Counting Macros } >{written by Karl Beykirch 1993} > >macro 'Fix LUT [F5]'; >begin > ChangeValues(255,255,254); > ChangeValues(0,0,1); >end; > >macro 'Calibrate Area per Grain [F6]' >var > pix,part,i,foo,width:integer; >begin > RequiresVersion(1.49); > GetRoi(foo,foo,width,foo); > if width=0 then begin > PutMessage('You have not selected an area!!'); > exit; > end; > SetOptions('Area, User1, User2'); > SetUser1Label('Grains'); > SetUser2Label('Density'); > SetPrecision(4); > SetForegroundColor(255); > SetBackgroundColor(0); > Copy; > KillRoi; > MakeNewWindow('Temp'); > Paste; > SetDensitySlice(255,255); > Measure; > GetResults(pix,foo,foo,foo,foo); > part:=GetNumber('Enter Number of Grains Selected:',1); > Dispose; > ResetCounter; > rUser2[1000]:=pix/part; > SetNewSize(275,50); > MakeNewWindow('Grain Size Calibrated'); > MoveTo(10,25); > Write('Grain size calibrated as ',rUser2[1000]:5:2,' pixels / grain >.'); > SetNewSize(640,480); >end; > >macro 'Count Grains in Area [F7]' >var > pixpart:real; > area,pix,i,foo,left,top,width,height:integer; >begin > if rUser2[1000]=0 then begin > PutMessage('Grain size is NOT calibrated!!'); > exit; > end; > GetRoi(left,top,width,height); > if width=0 then begin > PutMessage('You have not selected an area!!'); > exit; > end; > SetBackgroundColor(0); > Copy; > i:=rCount; > SetForegroundColor(128); > Fill; > SetForegroundColor(255); > MoveTo(left+(width/2),top+(height/2)); > Write(i+1); > KillRoi; > MakeNewWindow('Temp'); > Paste; > SetDensitySlice(255,255); > Measure; > Dispose; > rUser1[i+1]:=rArea[i+1]/rUser2[1000]; > SetCounter(i); > MakeNewWindow('Temp'); > Paste; > SetThreshold(1); > Measure; > GetResults(pix,foo,foo,foo,foo); > Dispose; > rUser2[i+1]:=rUser1[i+1]/pix; >end; > >macro 'Verify Calibration [F8]' >var > verif:real > pix,part,i,foo,width:integer; >begin > GetRoi(foo,foo,width,foo); > if width=0 then begin > PutMessage('You have not selected an area!!'); > exit; > end; > if rUser2[1000]=0 then begin > PutMessage('Grain size is NOT calibrated!!'); > exit; > end; > SetForegroundColor(255); > SetBackgroundColor(0); > Copy; > KillRoi; > MakeNewWindow('Temp'); > Paste; > SetDensitySlice(255,255); > i:=rCount; > Measure; > GetResults(pix,foo,foo,foo,foo); > SetCounter(i); > part:=GetNumber('Enter Number of Grains Selected:',1); > Dispose; > verif:=pix/part; > SetNewSize(275,50); > MakeNewWindow('Grain Size Verification'); > MoveTo(10,15); > Writeln('Grain size calibrated as ',rUser2[1000]:5:2,' pixels / grain >.'); > Writeln('Verification calibrated as ',verif:5:2,' pixels / grain .'); > SetNewSize(640,480); >end; > > From mt1ntg@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au Thu Aug 12 18:29:30 1993 Received: from fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12726; Wed, 11 Aug 1993 17:25:20 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308112225.AA12726@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from [160.64.14.216] by fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au with SMTP; Thu, 12 Aug 1993 8:35:57 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1993 08:29:30 +1000 To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU From: Noel Subject: Grey Dilation and Erosion Filters Is there any interest in code in Pascal for filters in image, which will allow grey erosion and dilation. These filters are simply a modified median filter, which instead of picking out the median value (actually the fourth brightest I think) of a 3x3 array, picks out the darkest or lightest pixel value and writes this in the central position. If you have noisy images it may be more reliable to pick out the next-to-darkest and next-to-lightest values instead. I have implemented these items some time ago, if there is any interest in this I will upload a document to Zippy which details all of the changes required to the various parts of Image and to the resource file. Regards Noel. Noel T Goldsmith DSTO Aeronautical Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Port Melbourne Vic 3207 Australia From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu Thu Aug 12 01:06:24 1993 Received: from Sdsc.Edu (sds.sdsc.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13742; Wed, 11 Aug 1993 20:02:09 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 01:06:24 GMT From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten) Message-Id: <930812010624.2081379d@sds.sdsc.edu> Subject: RE: Grey Dilation and Erosion Filters To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH Noel, Definitely interested in trying the grey filters. Harvey Karten From brown@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu Thu Aug 12 03:00:30 1993 Received: from alsys1.aecom.yu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17404; Thu, 12 Aug 1993 07:57:17 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.98.90.119] (garbo.aecom.yu.edu) by alsys1.aecom.yu.edu with SMTP id AA10264 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for ); Thu, 12 Aug 1993 09:01:36 -0400 From: "Lucy Brown" Date: Thu, 12 Aug 93 09:00:30 CST Message-Id: <32431.brown@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu> X-Popmail-Charset: English To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Grey dilation and erosion filters Noel, I am interested in the filters. Lucy Brown From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Thu Aug 12 07:59:11 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17444; Thu, 12 Aug 1993 07:59:11 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308121259.AA17444@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 12 Aug 1993 09:04:36 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Re: Grey Dilation and Erosio To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ RE>Grey Dilation and Erosion F Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Sounds useful, can they be implemented under in the macro interpreter? It would be more flexible that way. From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@ulb.ac.be Fri Aug 13 05:07:52 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24444; Fri, 13 Aug 1993 04:29:28 -0500 Return-Path: <@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@ulb.ac.be> Received: from rc1.vub.ac.be by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Fri, 13 Aug 93 11:10:35 +0200 Received: from is1e.vub.ac.be by rc1.vub.ac.be (4.1/RC1-930728) id AA19846; Fri, 13 Aug 93 11:12:41 MDT Received: by is1e.vub.ac.be (5.61/BFUCC-920211) id AA28091; Fri, 13 Aug 93 11:07:53 +0200 From: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be (Van Helden Jacques) Message-Id: <9308130907.AA28091@is1e.vub.ac.be> Subject: Re: Grey Dilation and Erosion Filters To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu Date: Fri, 13 Aug 93 11:07:52 MDT Cc: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Hello, I also wrote a routine which is an extension of median filtering. It allows filtering on larger arrays than 3x3 (up to 11x11, but it is then very slow). Rectangular arrays are allowed (you can filter along either X or Y axis for instance, which is convenient for "anisotropic" images). The routine also allows to choose the darkest, lightest, median or any intermediate value. It is availaible on zippy, in pub/image/contrib. The name of the file is QuantileFiltering.sit.hqx . Jacques van Helden jvanheld@ulb.ac.be From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Fri Aug 13 11:03:05 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26599; Fri, 13 Aug 1993 11:03:05 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308131603.AA26599@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 13 Aug 1993 12:06:58 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: CCD Camera and frame grabbe To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ CCD Camera and frame grabber Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu In the past we have used the Scion frame grabbers and relatively low cost CCD TV cameras to capture images. We now really need to get the best resolution possible from a CCD camera and frame grabber (at TV rate). I know I can buy systems that will give me 1024 by 1024 images, essentially 1 pixel of image for each element of a CCD camera, are these only slow scan devices? Are there high res TV rate devices? Any help appreciated. Thanks. From swalker@mta.ca Fri Aug 13 20:12:19 1993 Received: from macc1.mta.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00685; Fri, 13 Aug 1993 22:15:40 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mta.ca ([138.73.70.2]) by macc1.mta.ca with SMTP; Sat, 14 Aug 1993 0:18:42 -0300 (ADT) Received: from APPLE (QM 2.5a) by mta.ca (SMTP\QM 1.1.1) id AA32112; Sat, 14 Aug 1993 0:20:55 -0400 Message-Id: <00139.2828132455.32112@mta.ca> Organization: Mount Allison University, Sackville, N.B. Canada E0A 3C0 X-Charset: MACINTOSH To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu (nih-image) From: swalker@mta.ca (Stewart Walker) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1993 0:12:19 -0400 Subject: RasterOps Plug-ins Reply to: RasterOps Plug-ins What is the present level of compatibility of Image with the plug-ins for current RasterOps 24STV board plug-ins? If they still aren't working, is there a word on when they will? From a337ard@diamond.sara.nl Mon Aug 16 12:09:14 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15566; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 04:05:52 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from HASARA5.BITNET (MAILGATE@HASARA5) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H1SSWQ0HE8ASBV8D@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 04:10:04 CDT Received: from diamond.sara.nl by SARA.NL for nih-image@soils.umn.edu; 16 Aug 93 11:10 MET Received: by diamond.sara.nl (5.61-AIX-1.2/1.0), id AA118659, (for nih-image@soils.umn.edu, from a337ard@diamond.sara.nl); Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 11:09:14 +0100 From: a337ard@diamond.sara.nl Subject: Re: CCD Camera and frame grabbe To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <9308161009.AA118659@diamond.sara.nl> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Yes, there are, I have a folder on a hdtv video camera, having tv rates with a very high resolution (dont pin me to it, but if Ir recall right,it was 1024x1517 (other way round)). Black and white only. I have to dig in my pile of paper junk if you want more info on th emanufacturer. ard From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu Mon Aug 16 06:54:22 1993 Received: from synapse.UMDNJ.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17893; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 09:56:02 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 10:54:22 EDT From: "Herbert M. Geller" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Plug-Ins Message-Id: <9308161054.aa09058@synapse.umdnj.edu> I just got the hardware and software to connect our Kodak XL7700 printer to our Mac Quadra. The hardware is a GPIB interface from] National Instruments, and the NI test program tells me that there is a card in the machine as gpib0. I have the Kodak XL700 selected as device #4. The software is a Kodak Photoshop Plug-In I put the plug-in in the Image Plug-Ins folder, and then restarted the machine & launched Image 1.51. The plug in is recognized in the Export command, but when I try to export, I get an error message: Plug-In error, result code = -30200. Needless to say, I am baffled and would appreciate any help. Herb Geller From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Mon Aug 16 07:07:20 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17972; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 10:03:25 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA14298; Mon, 16 Aug 93 11:07:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 93 11:07:20 -0400 Message-Id: <9308161507.AA14298@helix.nih.gov> To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: wayne is on vacation In case some people are wondering why wayne rasband hasn't replied much to the list, it's because he is on vacation till August 30. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il Mon Aug 16 23:15:42 1993 Received: from dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19466; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 13:04:26 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [132.76.66.17] by dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il via SMTP (920110.SGI/911001.SGI) for nih-image@soils.umn.edu id AA18299; Mon, 16 Aug 93 21:08:10 +0200 Message-Id: <9308161908.AA18299@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 21:15:42 +0200 To: From: bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il (David L. Hirschberg) Subject: jpeg or other conversion of images Dear List, I just joined up today after downloading version 1.52b2. I apologize if this subject has been brought up before. Is there anyway that image will recognize compressed images? I would like to archive past images after I have analized them and do not mind any loss of quality due to the conversion. Will the new plugin features allow this tobe possible. Thanks in advance, David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David L. Hirschberg bnhirsch@dapsas.weizmann.ac.il Department of Neurobiology (972) 834-2127 work Weizmann Institute of Science (972) 847-4805 home Rehovot 76100 Israel (972) 834-4131 fax From meinel@aero.org Mon Aug 16 15:26:51 1993 Received: from aerospace.aero.org by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00488; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 00:20:57 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from antares.aero.org by aerospace.aero.org with SMTP (5.65c/6.0.GT) id AA19923 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu; Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:26:55 -0700 Posted-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:26:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199308170526.AA19923@aerospace.aero.org> Received: from altair.aero.org by antares.aero.org (4.1/AMS-1.0) id AA21535 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu; Mon, 16 Aug 93 22:26:54 PDT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: printing on a Kodak Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1993 22:26:51 -0700 From: "Edward S. Meinel" "Herbert M. Geller" says: >I just got the hardware and software to connect our Kodak XL7700 >printer to our Mac Quadra. with some problems... Do you really need to use the plug-in? I have printed to a Kodak from Image by selecting the Kodak as the print device in the "Chooser" and then using the "Print..." command from Image. Worked like a charm. Was I just lucky? Ed (meinel@aero.org) From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Tue Aug 17 08:00:01 1993 Received: from GATEKEEPER.ROCHE.COM by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04921; Tue, 17 Aug 1993 10:54:06 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by gatekeeper.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA20656; Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:00:02 -0400 Received: by mailgate.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA25172; Tue, 17 Aug 93 11:54:39 -0400 From: sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Message-Id: <9308171554.AA25172@mailgate.roche.com> Received: from rnisd0.enet; by inet.enet; Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:00:01 EDT Date: Tue, 17 Aug 93 12:00:01 EDT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Dye sublimation vs other technologies I have been investigating on how to output my color images and found that Photoshop and QuarkXPress can go a long way to put my work in a pleasing format. The question becomes: Which printer to use and at what cost? I seems that the answer lies on what your intend audience is. For publication in scientific journals, it may be that the die sublimation prints would be just good enough. There are other technologies that may be better, though more expensive... but I would like to ask if anybody has any experience with them: a. Metrum photoprint from Nuteck b. Color Laser Imager from 3M c. QMS color laser printer Does anybody know how to contact this Nuteck? Is it the general consensus that Tektronics has the best die sub printer, as suggested in a recent issue of MacWorld? How about the 3M rainbow printer? is it the only one that allows 17x11' prints? Juan I. Sarmiento Department of Toxicology and Pathology Hoffmann-La Roche, INC. 340 Kingsland street Nutley, NJ 07110 (201) 235 43 42 Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.COM From djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu Wed Aug 18 11:50:00 1993 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18145; Wed, 18 Aug 1993 16:44:42 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by wugate.wustl.edu (5.65c+/WUSTL-0.3) with SMTP id AA07898; Wed, 18 Aug 1993 16:50:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 16:50:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199308182150.AA07898@wugate.wustl.edu> From: djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu (D.J. Meyer) To: "nih-image@soils.umn.edu"@WUGATE.wustl.edu anybody have a phone number for a company/product called bioquant? dj meyer djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu From glenmac@u.washington.edu Wed Aug 18 09:46:06 1993 Received: from carson.u.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19319; Wed, 18 Aug 1993 18:46:48 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by carson.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA11887; Wed, 18 Aug 93 16:52:43 -0700 X-Sender: glenmac@carson.u.washington.edu Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 16:46:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Macdonald Subject: Re: your mail To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <199308182150.AA07898@wugate.wustl.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii R&M Biometrics, Inc. (615)269-9966 We've been using the BioQuant for several years. It has generated a lot of data for us, but is not user friendly, not windows compatible, not well supported, cannot easily do quantitative morphometry, very slow and not cheap. We mostly use Image. The bioquant is good at setting up data arrays, however, you just spend a lot ot time getting you data back out for stats. We/ve been looking at the windows app Optimas by Bioscan, or at one of the commercial mac packages for the stuff that Image can't do (yet). -Glen On Wed, 18 Aug 1993, D.J. Meyer wrote: > > anybody have a phone number for a company/product called bioquant? > dj meyer > djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu > > From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu Wed Aug 18 16:12:46 1993 Received: from synapse.UMDNJ.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19613; Wed, 18 Aug 1993 19:12:47 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 18 Aug 93 20:12:46 EDT From: "Herbert M. Geller" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: printing on a Kodak Message-Id: <9308182012.aa11973@synapse.umdnj.edu> Ed Meinel noted in response to my query: >I just got the hardware and software to connect our Kodak XL7700 >printer to our Mac Quadra. Do you really need to use the plug-in? I have printed to a Kodak from Image by selecting the Kodak as the print device in the "Chooser" and then using the "Print..." command from Image. Worked like a charm. Was I just lucky? Answer: I got new driver software from Kodak that took care of the problem. It uses the Photoshop Plug-in and works like a charm. Kodak was quite helpful in straightening it out, even sent me beta versions of their driver, since they do not plan to support the product any more! I will also repeat my offer: we can make high quality Kodak 7700 prints for outsiders for a moderate fee. The prints are photo-quality. Send me a message for information on this service. Herb Geller From stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu Wed Aug 18 18:46:47 1993 Received: from hubcap.clemson.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20783; Wed, 18 Aug 1993 21:41:36 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by hubcap.clemson.edu; Wed, 18 Aug 93 22:46:48 -0400 From: stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu (Sam Wang) Message-Id: <9308190246.AA15146@hubcap.clemson.edu> Subject: Re: Dye sublimation vs other technologies To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 22:46:47 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9308171554.AA25172@mailgate.roche.com> from "sarmienu%rnisd0.DNET.roche.com@relay.tc.umn.edu" at Aug 18, 93 05:45:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 878 > > I have been investigating on how to output my color images > and found that Photoshop and QuarkXPress can go a long > way to put my work in a pleasing format. The question > becomes: Which printer to use and at what cost? I seems that > I have been getting very nice results with Canon Color Laser Copier prints. Slide Imagers (1-800-232-5411) can output from PhotoShop files directly to 11x17 CLC prints at very reasonable costs: $4.95 for first, and $1.45 for any additional original prints from the same file. Minimum order is $15. One nice thing about the CLC prints is the apparent light-fastness of the colors: one print was placed in a sunny window for over 3 months with no visible fading. The paper showed no yellowing either. Sam -- Sam Wang stmwang@hubcap.clemson.edu 803/656-3924voice 656-0204fax Art Dept., Clemson University, Clemson, SC 29634-0509 From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Wed Aug 18 19:29:55 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21139; Wed, 18 Aug 1993 22:24:14 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H1WPYLWDNA000O86@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Wed, 18 Aug 1993 23:29:55 EDT Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 23:29:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: User Macro Extensions beta test uploaded to zippy To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H1WPYLWDNC000O86@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT [Trivia dept: This was posted this morning from the lab's (relatively) new Sun, but was rejected automatically. Did you know that nonsubscribers can't post to this list?] Image UMX is a beta test copy of modifications to Image 1.51 to support "User Macro Extensions" to the Image macro language. The major goal is to make it easy to merge several separately maintained extension packages into one copy of image. Basically, to add macro commands or functions, you create a new .p module, and make changes in eight well marked places in UMacroDef.p and UMacroRun.p. The result is like the "add-in" functions of Microsoft Excel, in which the added functions appear to be an integrated part of the original. This code also includes the "pidNumber" function I described earlier, which permits use of selectImage/chooseImage with the same number even if an image has been deleted meanwhile. A second goal is to make it easier to write code which accesses the pixels of the current ROI's in several images specified by picNumber of picNumber arguments to a user Macro command. Most of the work required to figure out how to access just the ROI is done in one place and need not be repeated in the user code. I urge people (groups) who add code to NIH Image to examine this package and to consider asking Wayne to make it part of the standard release. I hereby ask for this, but agreement by several parties, and absence of objections from others, will help. Examining the differences between my code and the original 1.51 will require a day or so (nothing takes less than a day, or is that a week? :-) of Wayne's time. The only controversial thing about this package is its philosophy of operating on several images at once rather than using choosepic, copy, choosepic, paste, add. This represents a discordant design feature. However, I think it has several advantages: it is easier to understand, it runs faster, and it permits operations that take more than two images as input. I admit, also, that I have not considered the alternate route of using plug-in filters to do some of the operations. This approach has the advantage of being cleanly integrated into the Image macro language, whereas plugin filters remain obviously "add on." The source code, a compiled copy of Image, and a few macro files are included in NIH-ImageUMX1.51b1.sit.hqx which will be uploaded to zippy.nimh.nih.gov /pub/nih-image/contrib shortly. This package is a first beta release, and it is not complete. I expect that the UMX interface is stable, however. An incomplete version of UMPixel16u.p, a 16 bit image arithmetic package, is also included. Examine UMacroDef.p, UMacroRun.p, and UMSample.p for more information. See also function DoUserToken in macros1.p, which contains the code for parsing the argument lists for user macro commands, and support for dealing with image number (picNumber or pidNumber) arguments, including automatic suspension and restart of active ROI's. From set@eru.mt.luth.se Thu Aug 19 13:01:46 1993 Received: from eru.mt.luth.se by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23919; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 04:55:53 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.240.1.176] (osse219.mt.luth.se) by eru.mt.luth.se with SMTP (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/IDA-1.2.8-NS) id AA21663; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 12:01:47 +0200 Message-Id: <199308191001.AA21663@eru.mt.luth.se> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 12:01:46 +0100 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg) Subject: Raster to DXF X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable Hello Maybee this is a clacical problem discussed here before. But we do have images of objects that we would like to take the countour of and convert that into vectorform as DXF-files. For example photo of an house into drawing for autocad. Any suggestions. ********************************************************* * * * Sven-Erik Tiberg * * Div. of energy / mashineenginnering * * Lulea University of Technology * * Lulea Sweden * * email set@eru.mt.luth.se * * Fax. S-(0)920-91047 * * Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638 * * * ********************************************************* From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Thu Aug 19 03:58:52 1993 Received: from forsoil.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA25826; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 08:52:15 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by forsoil.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA03417; Thu, 19 Aug 93 08:58:52 CDT Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 08:58:52 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9308191358.AA03417@forsoil.soils.umn.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Subscription administrivia - multiple return addresses In-Reply-To: "Edward J. Huff"'s message <01H1WPYLWDNC000O86@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> of 18 August 1993 References: <01H1WPYLWDNC000O86@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> "Edward J. Huff" writes on 18 August 1993 at 22:24:30 -0500 > [Trivia dept: This was posted this morning from the lab's > (relatively) new Sun, but was rejected automatically. Did you know > that nonsubscribers can't post to this list?] The NIH-Image list is currently set up that way, although it could be changed in the future, if there were compelling reasons to do so. As a point of information, what happened was that ed posted from a machine bearing a different internet mail address than the one he originally subscribed with. This has happened to a few other folks in the past, and there is a mechanism for dealing with this in the mailing list processing software I use to administer the list. If you have multiple mail addresses which you might be using, please send a note to that effect from the *original* address to owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu and I will make the necessary incantations. This is *not* a subscriber-settable feature, for obvious reasons. -jml From cammer@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu Thu Aug 19 09:16:16 1993 Received: from alsys1.aecom.yu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA27984; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 12:14:05 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by alsys1.aecom.yu.edu id AA26330 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for nih-image@soils.umn.edu); Thu, 19 Aug 1993 13:19:37 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 13:16:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Cammer Subject: Re: Dye sublimation vs other technologies To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <9308190246.AA15146@hubcap.clemson.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII We have found that the laser color copiers produce pictures from color slides (ektachrome) that are as good as or better than the cheaper (e.g. $16 for 8"x10") color photographs. They are often publication quality. They are cheap (at least in the NYC area, $4 per print). And some stores will print on iron-ons for t-shirts. -Michael Cammer From RBLYSTON@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU Thu Aug 19 10:48:53 1993 Received: from vm1.tucc.trinity.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00362; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 15:47:23 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308192047.AA00362@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from VM1.tucc.trinity.edu by VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 6284; Thu, 19 Aug 93 15:53:08 CDT Received: from TRINITY.EDU (RBLYSTON) by VM1.tucc.trinity.edu (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 0475; Thu, 19 Aug 93 15:53:07 CDT Date: Thu, 19 Aug 93 15:48:53 CDT From: Robert Blystone Subject: Image stack?? To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Question to the group: I am aware of a hypercard tutorial for nih image called image stack. Wayne Rasband built it for version 1.13. Is there a newer version of a nih image tutorial?? We checked Archie and was not able to find a newer version. Thanks for any help... Blystone in Texas RBLYSTON@Trinity.edu ********************** ROBERT V. BLYSTONE PHONE:(210)736-7243 DEPARTMENT OF BIOLOGY FAX:(210)736-7229 Trinity University E-Mail:RBlyston@Trinity.edu 715 Stadium Drive San Antonio, TX, 78212 From swalker@mta.ca Thu Aug 19 14:11:19 1993 Received: from macc1.mta.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00659; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 16:11:55 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mta.ca ([138.73.70.2]) by macc1.mta.ca with SMTP; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 18:16:35 -0300 (ADT) Received: from APPLE (QM 2.5a) by mta.ca (SMTP\QM 1.1.1) id AA32500; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 18:18:45 -0400 Message-Id: <00139.2828629125.32500@mta.ca> Organization: Mount Allison University, Sackville, N.B. Canada E0A 3C0 X-Charset: MACINTOSH To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu (nih-image) From: swalker@mta.ca (Stewart Walker) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 18:11:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Raster to DXF Reply to: RE>Raster to DXF After initial processing, I think you need an autotrace program to do the vectorization. Canvas 3 will do the autotrace and can export DXF. I have imported DXF into Canvas and it looks like the translator is quite solid. Adobe Streamline I think exists, but I have no idea what it can save as. -------------------------------------- Date: 19-08-93 07:27 To: Stewart Walker From: nih-image Received: from macc1.mta.ca by mta.ca (SMTP\QM 1.1.1) id AA2828590025; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 7:27:05 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 05:01:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199308191001.AA21663@eru.mt.luth.se> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: set%mt.luth.se@relay.tc.umn.edu (Sven-Erik Tiberg) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Raster to DXF Hello Maybee this is a clacical problem discussed here before. But we do have images of objects that we would like to take the countour of and convert that into vectorform as DXF-files. For example photo of an house into drawing for autocad. Any suggestions. ********************************************************* * * * Sven-Erik Tiberg * * Div. of energy / mashineenginnering * * Lulea University of Technology * * Lulea Sweden * * email set@eru.mt.luth.se * * Fax. S-(0)920-91047 * * Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638 * * * ********************************************************* From graubard@stein.u.washington.edu Thu Aug 19 09:43:15 1993 Received: from stein.u.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01938; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 18:40:38 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by stein.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA16370; Thu, 19 Aug 93 16:46:33 -0700 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 16:43:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Katherine Graubard Subject: Re:Bioquant To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: <199308182150.AA07898@wugate.wustl.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii Bioquant is sold by R and M Biometrics 1-800-221-0549 > anybody have a phone number for a company/product called bioquant? > dj meyer > djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu From mt1ntg@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au Fri Aug 20 21:03:49 1993 Received: from fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA02575; Thu, 19 Aug 1993 19:58:19 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308200058.AA02575@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from [160.64.14.216] by fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au with SMTP; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 11:10:51 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 11:03:49 +1000 To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu From: Noel Subject: Grey Dilation and Erosions The code for these filtershas been done in a more general way by Jaques Van Helden. I have tried it out and it seems to work well. The approach adopted by Jaques allows you to choose any size of array from 3x3 to 11x11 and also to choose rectangular arrays. It also allows you to choose the pixel whose intensity is in any position in the sorted set of intensity values for the array of pixels you are looking at. That is if you want the brightest, second brightest, third brightest .... you may have what you want. If you duplicate two copies of an image, and take the brightest quantile of one and the darkest quantile of the other and then copy one of these filtered images, paste it onto the other, and then use the subtract button in the paste control, you will display an image which has the edges enhanced. Quote from Jaques I also wrote a routine which is an extension of median filtering. It allows filtering on larger arrays than 3x3 (up to 11x11, but it is then very slow). Rectangular arrays are allowed (you can filter along either X or Y axis for instance, which is convenient for "anisotropic" images). The routine also allows to choose the darkest, lightest, median or any intermediate value. It is availaible on zippy, in pub/image/contrib. The name of the file is QuantileFiltering.sit.hqx . Jacques van Helden jvanheld@ulb.ac.be The only thing we need now is for these items to be runnable from macro calls. Hope this helps regards Noel Noel T Goldsmith DSTO Aeronautical Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Port Melbourne Vic 3207 Australia From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Fri Aug 20 03:54:09 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA06867; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 06:48:15 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA20723; Fri, 20 Aug 93 07:54:09 -0400 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 93 07:54:09 -0400 Message-Id: <9308201154.AA20723@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: Image stack?? >I am aware of a hypercard tutorial for nih image called image stack. >Wayne Rasband built it for version 1.13. > >Is there a newer version of a nih image tutorial?? I recall that the stack was NOT made by wayne rasband, but was made by someone who had used the software and just wan't to contribute something. At any rate that person long ago moved onto other things. I don't know who it was, and until wayne is back you probably won't get anyone to remember back that far. Till then, NIH Image 1.51 has lots of balloon help, try turning the help on from the ? under system 7. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu Fri Aug 20 04:44:00 1993 Received: from vms2.macc.wisc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08423; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 09:40:34 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from VMSmail by vms2.macc.wisc.edu; Fri, 20 Aug 93 09:44 CDT Message-Id: <23082009445131@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 93 09:44 CDT From: Charles Thomas Subject: Boundry To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: image,CHARLEST We recently switched from Image 1.49 to 1.51. I'm now experiencing a problem and I don't know if the problem was present in 1.49. Hopefully there is a solution. I have several data stacks which were obtained from the confocal microsope. In order to quantify the fluorescence from different areas of the 3D data set, I have loaded the slices into Image, made a stack from them, and choose a round region of interest. What I did originally, and I thought successfully, was to measure an area with "Command 1", then mark it with "Command B". That way I would know which areas had been marked. I would then move the ROI to another area of the slice and repeat the procedure. However, yesterday, repeating this procedure with another user's data, I noticed that the "Command B" was not marking the first ROI, that it had to be hit twice before it left a mark. The next thing I noticed was that after hitting the "Command B" the first time, my results were greatly increasing. Experimentation confirmed that after the initial "Command B", the color of the boundry was being added into my mean intensity reading. My question is two-part. 1) Has Image always worked this way? If so, it places great doubt on some results I obtained earlier this year. 2) Is there a way for me to measure, mark, and move my ROI WITHOUT having the marking affect my readings? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. From djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu Fri Aug 20 11:52:21 1993 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10878; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 17:00:12 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by wugate.wustl.edu (5.65c+/WUSTL-0.3) with SMTP id AA16841; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 16:52:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 16:52:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199308202152.AA16841@wugate.wustl.edu> From: djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu (D.J. Meyer) To: "nih-image@soils.umn.edu"@WUGATE.wustl.edu Subject: densitometry hi, we have flat mounted retinal slides we capture into our IIfx. the tissue samples are stained with HRP (horseradish paroxidase) to bring out the cones. i want to automatically count the cones. the problem i'm having is the the flat mounts are not completely flat mounted. therefore, the backgrounds will vary in intensity, as will the cones in that area. when i do an analyze particles, i'm able to get good results in some regions with a particular range, and poor results in other regions. i can get all the regions, but not in one step, and its not as if the regions are in nice grids. any suggestions on how to approach this? thanks dj meyer djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Fri Aug 20 14:07:52 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00412; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 20:23:55 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.122.133.136] (PGL6.CHEM.NYU.EDU) by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H1Z9F6YAV4000WPE@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 19:07:53 EDT Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1993 19:07:52 -0500 From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff) Subject: Re: Boundry To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H1Z9F79ABM000WPE@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >We recently switched from Image 1.49 to 1.51. I'm now experiencing a problem >and I don't know if the problem was present in 1.49. Hopefully there is a >solution. I tried opening a new white image, choosing the oval selection tool, making a circular selection, and type command 1, command B, command 1. The results showed that the second measure included the boundary, but the first did not. It was not obvious that the boundary had been drawn until the selection was moved, and there seems to be a bug in the foreground color: although the paint brush looked black, the foreground color was 180. Each image has its own foreground color, but switching to a new image does not update the paint brush. Thus, you may have had the foreground color inadvertently set so that the boundary marking was not visible. No doubt this will be fixed soon enough next month... -- Edward J. Huff huff@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu (212)998-8465 Keck Laboratory for Biomolecular Imaging NYU Chemistry Deptartment, 31 Washington Place, New York NY 10003 From bbug1@cc.swarthmore.edu Sat Aug 21 08:12:11 1993 Received: from oak.cc.swarthmore.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00715; Fri, 20 Aug 1993 21:45:37 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by oak.cc.swarthmore.edu (sendmail 5.57/oak04-22-93) id AA24833; Sat, 21 Aug 93 13:10:36 -0400 Message-Id: <9308211710.AA24833@oak.cc.swarthmore.edu> X-Mailer: Eudora/Swarthmore 1.3b116 Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1993 13:12:11 -0500 To: From: bbug1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Bill Bug) Subject: cone counting >hi, >we have flat mounted retinal slides we capture into our IIfx. the tissue >samples are stained with HRP (horseradish paroxidase) to bring out the >cones. i want to automatically count the cones. the problem i'm having is >the the flat mounts are not completely flat mounted. therefore, the >backgrounds will vary in intensity, as will the cones in that area. >when i do an analyze particles, i'm able to get good results in some regions >with a particular range, and poor results in other regions. i can get all >the regions, but not in one step, and its not as if the regions are in >nice grids. any suggestions on how to approach this? >thanks >dj meyer >djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu If you have the ability to image your sections with epiflourescence, I'd recommend switching to a fluoresent probe from HRP. You will eliminate many of the problems you seem to be having picking out your staining structure from the background. I can't tell whether you are using an antibody probe to cones or are staining with HRP in a more direct manner. If your using an antibody probe, switching to a fluorescent marker won't be difficult. You'll have a smaller signal in general, but a much better signal-to-noise ratio. If your imaging device is sensitive enough and you use Avidin-biotin linked fluorophores, you should be able to image the structures successfully. Since the background will be much lower, variations in the background across a section shouldn't be as big a problem. If you can flat-field (correct for the spherical abberations in your optics and compensate for spatial non-uniformity in the illumination of your field) your images reasonably well, then most of the structures that stain should fall within a reasonably narrow range of intesities and, therefore, should not be too difficult to pick out using standard segmentation routines. An alternative method for counting cells with a fluorescence probe is to use a nuclear stain (e.g., DAPI, Hoescht, etc.). If the nuclei that you are trying to pick out can be identified by their size or shape, you could pick them out from among the population of nuclei in your image. This is less specific than using a antibody, but if the tissue that has a highly regular structure - like the retina - such a method can completement what you already know about the anatomy of the tissue and be very effective. The main advantage is that these DNA dyes may give you a stronger signal than an antibody stain, which can greatly simplify the analysis. We've used such a technique quite successfully in insect retina. Good luck! Cheers, Bill Bug *********************************************** Bill Bug Biology Department Swarthmore College Swarthmore, PA 19081 (215) 328-7788 / (215) 328-8663 [FAX] From gstuart@unixg.ubc.ca Sat Aug 21 07:42:16 1993 Received: from unixg.ubc.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01553; Sat, 21 Aug 1993 02:18:48 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by unixg.ubc.ca (4.1/1.14) id AA02095; Sat, 21 Aug 93 14:43:53 PDT Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1993 14:42:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Gregory Stuart Subject: Help with pascal (User.p) needed To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Image users! I had written a macro that takes an image, thresholds it, and sets all pixels below the threshold to zero (BackGroundToZero). However, doing this in a macro takes a long time (especially for large images!). I just got Think Pascal, but it has been a long time since I programmed (on much less sophisticated platforms!). I am particularly fuzzy on how/what variables should be declared/passed to the pascal code. Perhaps some kind soul could spend a few moments and tell me what has to be done to get the following to work (perhaps by reposting a modified version of the text included below). Any help, comments, suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Thanks, :-) Greg :-) var {global macro variables} left,top,width,height,x,y,bottom,right,thresnum,percentdone, counter:integer; macro 'PrepareImage'; begin MakeRoi(31,21,521,391); DrawBoundary; MakeRoi(32,22,520,390); Smooth;Smooth;Smooth; AutoThreshold; KillRoi; thresnum:=GetNumber('Enter Threshold Number',''); if thresnum<1 then begin beep;beep;beep;beep;beep; PutMessage('The Threshold Value you entered was <1; Please dispose of the thresholded image and restart at/before macro "Prepare Image"!'); exit; end; if thresnum>254 then begin beep;beep;beep;beep;beep; PutMessage('The Threshold Value you entered was > 254; Please dispose of the thresholded image and restart at/before macro "Prepare Image"!'); exit; end; MoveTo(30,5); Write('Threshold value = ',thresnum); PutMessage('Please select a ROI now.'); end; macro 'BackGroundToZero'; begin GetROI(left,top,width,height); if width=0 then begin PutMessage('Please select a ROI.'); exit; end; counter:=0; {for calculating %age background subtraction completed} right:=left+width; bottom:=top+height; for y:=top to bottom do begin GetRow(left,y,width); for x:=1 to width do begin if LineBuffer[x] Received: from rc1.vub.ac.be by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Mon, 23 Aug 93 13:21:36 +0200 Received: from is1e.vub.ac.be by rc1.vub.ac.be (4.1/RC1-930728) id AA20245; Mon, 23 Aug 93 13:24:02 +0200 Received: by is1e.vub.ac.be (5.61/BFUCC-920211) id AA21316; Mon, 23 Aug 93 13:18:44 +0200 From: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be (Van Helden Jacques) Message-Id: <9308231118.AA21316@is1e.vub.ac.be> Subject: Re: Grey Dilation and Erosions To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Mon, 23 Aug 93 13:18:43 MDT Cc: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] > The only thing we need now is for these items to be runnable from macro > calls. It is possible to call the Quantile functions from a macro; XY Quantile: UserCode(1, FilterW, FilterH, Quantile); Z Quantile: UserCode(2,Quantile,0,0); I added a new funtion in the zippy file: Crest Pathway. the file name is now Image_1.51_QuantCrest.sit.hqx Crest Pathway: UserCode(3,radius,angle,length); The crest pathway is a function that allow you to trace contours. It traces a line following a crest in an image, by reiterately stepping from a point to its darkest neighbour. The user is asked to enter 3 parameters: - Averaging distance: to avoid influence of noisy pixels, you can ask the routine to average the gray level over a chosen distance, and to choose the direction with the darkest average. - Maximal angle: this parameters indicates the maximal deviation that the path can take at each step. Enter 1 for 2 x 45 deg (right and left), 2 for 2 x 90 deg, and 3 for 2 x 135 deg. - Maximal path length: indicates the number of reiterations of the routine. Note that the routine stops before if the pathway is cycling. A value of 0 for the maximal pathway indicates that the routine stops after having accomplished a cycling pathway. The "tail" is then automatically removed and only the cycle remains. In the first version I uploaded, there was a bug that is now fixed. Bugs and comments can be send to Jacques van Helden jvanheld@ulv.ac.be From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Mon Aug 23 04:24:20 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08844; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 07:24:33 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA20518; Mon, 23 Aug 93 08:24:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 93 08:24:20 -0400 Message-Id: <9308231224.AA20518@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: densitometry >we have flat mounted retinal slides we capture into our IIfx. the tissue >samples are stained with HRP (horseradish paroxidase) to bring out the >cones. i want to automatically count the cones. the problem i'm having is >the the flat mounts are not completely flat mounted. therefore, the >backgrounds will vary in intensity, as will the cones in that area. >when i do an analyze particles, i'm able to get good results in some regions >with a particular range, and poor results in other regions. i can get all >the regions, but not in one step, and its not as if the regions are in >nice grids. any suggestions on how to approach this? Maybe, depending on what the ultimate info content you are looking for in the analyze particles. what info content are you looking for? The background subtraction in NIH Image, such as the 2D rolling ball, was designed to remove uneven illuminations. You must first measure the width of your objects with the line tool. Enter this under the ball radius under background subtract. Next run a 2D background subtract, then try segmenting the image and then running analyze particles. Now from my experience you can do this even on horrible images, and I have some images worse than your retinal cells most likely. However it is a real trick to segment the images. You need to have a consistent segmentation done, I have found some multiple of the standard of deviation as one useful way to segment. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From R.Pugmire@massey.ac.nz Tue Aug 24 21:37:34 1993 Received: from cc-server4.massey.ac.nz by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03374; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 16:34:32 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.123.71.66] by cc-server4.massey.ac.nz (5.64+IDA-1.3.1) id AA10587; Tue, 24 Aug 93 09:34:21 +1200 Message-Id: <9308232134.AA10587@cc-server4.massey.ac.nz> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 09:37:34 +1200 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: R.Pugmire@massey.ac.nz (Ralph Pugmire) Subject: images from 35mm negs Hi folks, Two questions: What is the maximum resolution images one can extract from 35mm film. Are there scanners which will take the data direct from the film. I'd like to extract data at 9000 x 6000 if possible or is that pushing things? Well maybe more than two questions: Once printed to say 6x4 prints what resolution has been lost, distorted. Are there frame grabbers that can be connected to one of the Mac notebooks? Either to handle a 512x512 resolution ccd camera or preferably one of the higher resolution cameras Thanks in anticipation Ralph Pugmire ___________________________________________________________________________ / Ralph Pugmire o / / Research Officer o Email: RPugmire@massey.ac.nz / / Dept. of Production Technology o Phone: +64 6 350-4086 / \ Massey University o Fax: +64 6 350-5604 \ \ New Zealand o \ \__________________________________________________________________________\ From ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu Mon Aug 23 06:59:12 1993 Received: from nak.Berkeley.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03588; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 16:54:00 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from nature.Berkeley.EDU by nak.berkeley.edu (5.67/1.40) id AA13516; Mon, 23 Aug 93 14:53:59 -0700 Received: from [128.32.128.166] (kos5mac11.Berkeley.EDU) by nature.berkeley.edu.cnr-net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23692; Mon, 23 Aug 93 14:55:39 PDT Message-Id: <9308232155.AA23692@nature.berkeley.edu.cnr-net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 14:59:12 -0800 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu (Steven Ruzin) Subject: Japan VTR format Sorry to ask a non-Image question but maybe just this once...: Will I be able to run my USA VHS format video tape (of an NIH Image stack) in Japan? ie: What VTR format is standard in Japan. Steve... /////////////////////////////////////////////// | Steven Ruzin | | NSF Center of Plant Developmental Biology | | Dept Plant Biology | | Univ California Berkeley | | e-mail: ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu | | phone: 510-642-6602 | /////////////////////////////////////////////// From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Mon Aug 23 14:48:07 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03999; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 17:48:37 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H23FIB5SLO0013SZ@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 18:48:07 EDT Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1993 18:48:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: Re: Help with pascal (User.p) needed To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H23FIB5SLQ0013SZ@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Check out the "change values" macro procedure. It should be able to do what you need. But don't throw away your User.p, the next thing you need to do might not already be done. If you send me a copy, I will compile it and explain what the error messages mean. From wagner@prod.mew.mei.co.jp Mon Aug 23 20:27:38 1993 Received: from oskgate0.mei.co.jp by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04944; Mon, 23 Aug 1993 20:27:38 -0500 Received: by oskgate0.mei.co.jp (5.65mei1.1/5.2:4.3:oskgate:930808) id AA09185; Tue, 24 Aug 93 10:27:24 +0900 Received: by chorus.isl.mei.co.jp (5.65mei1.1/5.2:4.3:chorus:930808) id AA22979; Tue, 24 Aug 93 10:27:23 +0900 Received: by mewserv.mew.mei.co.jp (5.65/4.2:2.0:master:920522) id AA19252; Tue, 24 Aug 93 10:27:22 +0900 Received: by prod.prod.mew.mei.co.jp (4.1/6.4J.6-prod_master_830) id AA27701; Tue, 24 Aug 93 10:24:25 JST Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 10:24:25 JST From: wagner@prod.mew.mei.co.jp (Mr.Wagner) Return-Path: Message-Id: <9308240124.AA27701@prod.prod.mew.mei.co.jp> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: Japan VTR format A US videotape should work in the machines here. From the US videotapes I have watched, I'd say perhaps the quality is a little lower (maybe the tapes were in "slow record" format), but everything is recognizable. Matthias Wagner Production Engineering Lab Matsushita Electric Works From set@eru.mt.luth.se Tue Aug 24 12:29:05 1993 Received: from eru.mt.luth.se by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07221; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 04:29:10 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.240.1.176] (osse219.mt.luth.se) by eru.mt.luth.se with SMTP (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/IDA-1.2.8-NS) id AA20932; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 11:29:05 +0200 Message-Id: <199308240929.AA20932@eru.mt.luth.se> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 11:29:05 +0100 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg) Subject: Hobby: knitting and tapetstry X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable Hello This is a non-science question, I have been asked if it's possible to transform an color image of a landshape, a house or flowers into a knitting layout. One approach would be to define a set of colours , by NCSA PalEdit, and to let NIH-Image transform an RGB-image to a 8-bit image with this LUT. Doing this, I have experienced that if NIH-Image doesen't find a god colour match between an pixel and a LUT-cell it leaves that pixel blank. Any ideas or suggestion. ********************************************************* * * * Sven-Erik Tiberg * * Div. of energy / mashineenginnering * * Lulea University of Technology * * Lulea Sweden * * email set@eru.mt.luth.se * * Fax. S-(0)920-91047 * * Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638 * * * ********************************************************* From jans0015@gold.tc.umn.edu Tue Aug 24 05:43:15 1993 Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu (gold1.tc.umn.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09466; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 10:43:09 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308241543.AA09466@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from [134.84.222.117] by gold.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c7a3711a27188; Tue, 24 Aug 93 10:43:13 -0500 From: "Elizabeth M. Jansen" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: No Subject Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 10:43:15 -0500 NIH Image Gerus: I am a novice at all of this, and am therefore having some troubles. I am trying to piece together a system to analyze some slide mounted brain sections stained for different things. Here is what I am trying to do: I have an IBM 486 computer with a Videoblaster image capture board. I can capture and save an image there from my microscope just fine as an 8 bit tiff. When I try to get this image over to my Macintosh IIsi in order to work with the NIH Image program, however, I lose a lot of resolution. I have tried two different ways to send the tif files over to the MAC... 1) by emailing it to myself and then opening it in the MAC, and 2) by using the apple file exchange program. By both of these methods, the image has lost way too much resolution for analysis. Does anyone see my problem? Does anyone have any advice? Thank you, Liz Jansen From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu Tue Aug 24 08:37:17 1993 Received: from synapse.UMDNJ.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10062; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 11:43:20 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 12:37:17 EDT From: "Herbert M. Geller" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: PC to MAc Message-Id: <9308241237.aa17667@synapse.umdnj.edu> "Elizabeth M. Jansen" , asks: I have tried two different ways to send the tif files over to the MAC... 1) by emailing it to myself and then opening it in the MAC, and 2) by using the apple file exchange program. By both of these methods, the image has lost way too much resolution for analysis. Does anyone see my problem? Does anyone have any advice? I do my image capture on a P.C., which saves them in tiff format, and move it over to the MAC via ftp in binary mode. I then import them into Image and the image is excellent. From what you say, you might be moving files in ASCII rather than binary mode. Herb Geller From rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov Tue Aug 24 08:53:46 1993 Received: from jupiter.ESD.ORNL.GOV by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10219; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 11:55:06 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from esdupx.esd.ornl.gov by jupiter.esd.ornl.gov (5.65/1.34) id AA01708; Tue, 24 Aug 93 12:55:01 -0400 From: "Rupert Wimmer" Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 12:53:46 EDT Message-Id: <442.rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov_POPMail/PC_3.2.2> Reply-To: X-Popmail-Charset: English To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu, rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov Subject: PAL-Image Hi, here comes another newcomer question: I planning to use NIH-Image with PAL-standard in Europe. NIH 1.51 accepts PAL standard, right ? Which frame grabber boards are recommended for PAL ? Which PAL cameras ? Thanks for your help ! --Rupert *------------------------------------------------------------------* | Rupert Wimmer Environmental Science Division | | Phone: (615)574-7358 Oak Ridge National Laboratory | | Fax: (615)576-9939 P.O. Box 2008, Bldg. 1506 | | rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov Oak Ridge, Tennessee 37831-6034 | *------------------------------------------------------------------* From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Tue Aug 24 09:36:14 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10632; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 12:36:19 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA01219; Tue, 24 Aug 93 13:36:14 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 13:36:14 -0400 Message-Id: <9308241736.AA01219@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: PAL-Image >Hi, >here comes another newcomer question: I planning to use NIH-Image with >PAL-standard in Europe. NIH 1.51 accepts PAL standard, right ? Which >frame grabber boards are recommended for PAL ? Which PAL cameras ? We regularly use Image with Quickcapture (50 Hz) on some european instruments. I'm sure the scion 50 Hz board - LG3 works fine too. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Tue Aug 24 09:45:42 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10731; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 12:45:49 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA02908; Tue, 24 Aug 93 13:45:42 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 13:45:42 -0400 Message-Id: <9308241745.AA02908@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: PC to mac >I have tried two different ways to send the tif files over to the MAC... >1) by emailing it to myself and then opening it in the MAC, and >2) by using the apple file exchange program. We often use a network and apple file exchange to move images and this works just fine. I would not recomend email. You could use laplink if you can't ftp files with your pc. Laplink is a serial cable/sofware between a mac and pc. If none of these work, it seems that something else must be the trouble. >the image has lost way too much resolution for analysis. What did you mean that you lose resolution, could you be more specific? That statement seems out of context here and implies something like aspect ratio problems or some other matter. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU Sat Aug 24 09:56:34 1993 Received: from dartvax.dartmouth.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10891; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 12:56:40 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from donner.dartmouth.edu by dartvax.dartmouth.edu (5.65+D5/4.5HUB) id AA16152; Tue, 24 Aug 93 13:56:32 -0400 Message-Id: <6234784@donner.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 24 Aug 93 13:56:34 EDT From: Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU (Charles P. Daghlian) Subject: Re: PC to MAc To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu We transfer images from PC machines all the time. Herb Geller is probably correct about ASCII format. The easiest way to do the transfers is via ftp, or with a DOS disk, the latter made to appear on the Mac with DOSmounter or the like. Then import into Image. If you use a file translator, be sure it can do TIFF conversions. Image does not like segmented TIFF files, unless that has changed. If your original image is 8 bit, it should open with full resolution. Chuck Daghlian Rippel E. M. Facility Dartmouth College From SMASESM@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU Tue Aug 24 08:58:55 1993 Received: from umslvma.umsl.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11763; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 14:08:20 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308241908.AA11763@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from UMSLVMA by UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 7632; Tue, 24 Aug 93 14:08:30 CDT Received: from UMSLVMA (SMASESM) by UMSLVMA (Mailer R2.08) with BSMTP id 9914; Tue, 24 Aug 93 14:08:29 CDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 13:58:55 CDT From: Mike Sesma Subject: Re: No Subject To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 24 Aug 1993 10:46:14 -0500 from You should be able to mount your dos disk directly on your mac with dosmounter or the new mac/PCexchange. Maclink Plus/pc have translators for graphics formats which will translate and convert from TIFF files to PICT files. I have not tried that specific conversion but the other translators have all worked as they are advertised. You can also use these translators with AFE but it is more cumbersome and slower. Maclink comes with dosmounter and you can buy the translators without buying the maclink program. It is made by DataViz, 203 268-0030. From MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Tue Aug 24 09:35:41 1993 Received: from orange.cc.utexas.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12012; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 14:36:40 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from utxvms.cc.utexas.edu by utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (PMDF V4.2-12 #4544) id <01H24L0POTOG8WX2VA@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 14:35:41 CDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 14:35:41 -0500 (CDT) From: MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: images from 35mm negs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H24L0PUZIQ8WX2VA@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT 2nd try. . . How does NIH-Image compute major and minor axes? Does it curve fit to an ellipse? Does it compute the major axis first and then find the longest orthogonal chord length? or does it compute the minor axis length as the orthogonal chord length at the midpoint of the major axis? Thank you. Peter J. Joyce Office Phone (512) 471-5724 email= Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 15:39:06 EDT From: "Herbert M. Geller" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: PAL-Image Message-Id: <9308241539.aa17879@synapse.umdnj.edu> Although I don't have my camera yet (I've ordered a DAGE CCD-72C), I have a Scion LG-3 configured for CCIR (50 HZhz) and it checks out O.K. I think that Image works fine with files of this size. Herb Geller From @YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu:Mike_Schwartz@QUICKMAIL.CIS.YALE.EDU Tue Aug 24 14:48:35 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12133; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 14:48:35 -0500 Return-Path: <@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu:Mike_Schwartz@QUICKMAIL.CIS.YALE.EDU> Message-Id: <199308241948.AA12133@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from quickmail.yale.edu by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 24 Aug 93 15:47:05 EDT Date: 24 Aug 1993 15:50:19 U From: "Mike Schwartz" Subject: morphometry programs To: "Image List" Return-Receipt-To: "Mike Schwartz" Subject: Time:3:26 PM OFFICE MEMO morphometry programs Date:8/24/93 Although this inquiry is not directly related to Image, I am hoping that the subscribers to this list may be able to steer me in the correct direction. I am interested in performing morphometric analyses on video images or on profiles entered via a bit pad. Although Image will perform some of these measurements, the ability to trace axons or profiles exceeding the dimensions of the screen appears to be impossible. There are several commercial programs for the IBM that are capable of doing this, however, I perfer to use my MAC. Unfortunately, I do not have a large budget to acquire this type of application so programs such as those sold by Automatrix are beyond my current resources. Does anyone know of any good MAC morphometry programs for under $2000? From mk@nwu.edu Tue Aug 24 09:41:01 1993 Received: from merle.acns.nwu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12674; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 15:41:04 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from trefoilknots.markey.nwu.edu by merle.acns.nwu.edu with SMTP (16.6/16.2) id AA05679; Tue, 24 Aug 93 15:40:59 -0500 Message-Id: <9308242040.AA05679@merle.acns.nwu.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 15:41:01 -0600 To: From: mk@nwu.edu (M. Khokha) X-Sender: mkhokha@merle.acns.nwu.edu Subject: Re: No Subject Cc: mk@nwu.edu >You should be able to mount your dos disk directly on your mac with dosmounter >or the new mac/PCexchange. Maclink Plus/pc have translators for graphics >formats which will translate and convert from TIFF files to PICT files. We have Maclink Plus/PC version 7, and it also comes with translators that convert PC TIFF to Mac TIFF although I have never needed to use it since importing the file as a TIFF image has always worked in my experience. Also my understanding is that PICT images do not maintain the original data set and are not true data. I am not sure what a conversion from TIFF to PICT would do to the data, but I have heard from more than one imaging guru that PICT files lose quatitative information so I have always avoided them. Anyone hear otherwise? >I have >not tried that specific conversion but the other translators have all worked as >they are advertised. You can also use these translators with AFE but it is >more cumbersome and slower. Maclink comes with dosmounter and you can buy the >translators without buying the maclink program. It is made by DataViz, >203 268-0030. We have version 7 of Maclink (which I think is the latest), and it no longer comes with DosMounter. Instead they bundle it with Apple's Mac/PC Exchange which allows you to mount DOS disks just like Mac disks and format in either variety. We use IBM generated TIFF files all the time with Image, and I have never had any trouble with them using Import and selecting TIFF (I just did it a few minutes ago with version 1.51). Getting the file on to your Mac is another story though. We use ftp in binary mode and that has worked although I suspect it would be very messed up in ASCII mode as previously suggested. If this is not possible, then perhaps just getting Mac/PC exchange (or DosMounter) from Apple would be the next choice and trying Import with NIH-Image provided you can fit the image on a disk. Then maybe try Maclink or some other program with Mac TIFF to PC TIFF translators (Adobe Photoshop). Good luck, Mustafa Khokha (mk@nwu.edu) Markey Program in Developmental Biology T239 Northwestern University Medical School 303 E. Chicago Ave Tel:(312) 503-5232 Chicago IL 60611-3008 FAX:(312) 908-5253 U.S.A. From ag14+@andrew.cmu.edu Tue Aug 24 13:17:55 1993 Received: from PO2.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13034; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 16:19:13 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (postman@localhost) by po2.andrew.cmu.edu (8.5/8.5) id RAA09352; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 17:19:09 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 17:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs17.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 17:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs17.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 17:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.170.Aug.16.1993.11.29.44.sun4c.411.MacMail.5.2.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs17.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.pcs17.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 17:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 17:17:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Albert H. Gough" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: images from 35mm negs Cc: In-Reply-To: <9308232134.AA10587@cc-server4.massey.ac.nz> Kodak now has a service called Photo CD, where they will scan your film and put the scanned image on a CD ROM in Photo CD format. A number of programs now support this format. The images are stored in five resolutions, up to 2048 x 3072, and 24 bits per pixel. I would guess that this is approaching the resolution limit of film (depends on the film of course), but I don't know this for a fact. The service is supposed to be reasonable though I don't know the cost. For information call 800-242-2424 ext. 36. You will need access to a multisession CD ROM drive, but the cost of these drives is also fairly reasonable (~$500). I would guess that very high resolution scanners (Kodak does it at about 2000 dpi) are very expensive. Bert Gough ________________ ________________________ _______________________ || / / \ |Albert H. Gough |EMail: | || / / | \ \ | / |Ctr for Light Microscope| ag14+@andrew.cmu.edu | || / ( | ) \|/ |Imaging & Biotechnology | | ||*|) ( | ) ---X--- |Carnegie Mellon Univ. |Phone: (412) 268-6570 | || \ ( | ) /|\ |4400 Fifth Ave. | | || \ \ | / / | \ |Pittsburgh, PA 15213 |FAX: (412) 268-6571 | || \__\_/___________|________________________|_______________________| From tg3@u.washington.edu Tue Aug 24 07:29:45 1993 Received: from stein.u.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13351; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 16:46:38 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by stein.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA03846; Tue, 24 Aug 93 14:46:36 -0700 X-Sender: tg3@stein.u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 14:29:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Thurman Gillespy Subject: PICT vs TIFF files. To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: <9308242040.AA05679@merle.acns.nwu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii In response to an earlier thread, by all means you should avoid PICT files if you are doing quantitative image analysis. The Mac imaging model is most concerned with the color of each pixel, and does not really care so much about the actual pixel value. Thus PICT files cannot guarentee that your pixel values remain fixed. TIFF is a machine and system independent image standard that avoids this problem altogether. The image raster data is safely tucked away, and will not change unless you explicitly change it. BTW, is almost an oxymoron to "convert an IBM TIFF file to Mac TIFF." TIFF is TIFF, period (assuming a properly compliant reader...). At most, you might want to give your IBM file a filetype and creator so it has a nice icon on the desktop. But the reader is supposed to handle differences in byte order, gray scale slope, etc. Thurman Gillespy (tg3@u.washington.edu) Department of Radiology Unviversity of Washington From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu Tue Aug 24 14:40:24 1993 Received: from synapse.UMDNJ.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13909; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 17:46:27 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 24 Aug 93 18:40:24 EDT From: "Herbert M. Geller" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: morphometry programs Message-Id: <9308241840.aa18050@synapse.umdnj.edu> "Mike Schwartz" Subject: morphometry programs Asks: Subject: Time:3:26 PM OFFICE MEMO morphometry programs Date:8/24/93 Although this inquiry is not directly related to Image, I am hoping that the subscribers to this list may be able to steer me in the correct direction. I am interested in performing morphometric analyses on video images or on profiles entered via a bit pad. Although Image will perform some of these measurements, the ability to trace axons or profiles exceeding the dimensions of the screen appears to be impossible. There are several commercial programs for the IBM that are capable of doing this, however, I perfer to use my MAC. Unfortunately, I do not have a large budget to acquire this type of application so programs such as those sold by Automatrix are beyond my current resources. Does anyone know of any good MAC morphometry programs for under $2000? In my experience, Image can analyze huge files. We make montages of neurons taken with a 63X lens, 1000 X 1000 each frame. Some of these montages are 5 X 5 Mbytes. They can be analysed with image, although for ease of saving disk space we reduce the size following analysis. Herb Geller From glenmac@u.washington.edu Tue Aug 24 11:13:43 1993 Received: from carson.u.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA14837; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 20:20:22 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by carson.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA00993; Tue, 24 Aug 93 18:20:19 -0700 X-Sender: glenmac@carson.u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 18:13:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Macdonald Subject: PC TIFF to MAC To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <9308242040.AA05679@merle.acns.nwu.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii When I've attempted to open TIFf files from PC software Image responds with error messages, usually telling me that the file has an improper header or that it is an unrecognized format. The files were brought onto the mac with Apple File Exchange. The only time I nneded to do this was with some CorelDraw files saved as .tif. Attempts to convert them with Imagery failed. Any suggestions on converting PC tiff files, or is there something odd about Coreldraw? From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Tue Aug 24 17:48:31 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA14993; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 20:48:41 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H250063PWG0003ML@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 21:48:31 EDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 21:48:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: Re: PC TIFF to MAC To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H250064IUA0003ML@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Any time you have trouble opening files, try importing them with offset zero. Magnify the image and you can read off the bytes in the values window. Or if the image is TIFF, and is not compressed, then the pixel data will be a few lines down and if you get the horizontal size right, you can see the image. Usually, the image is not quite flat and the edge is an obvious line. Adjust the offset to move the line to the side. If the line is not vertical, adjust the horizontal size. Adjust the vertical size until you don't get an end of file error. Otherwise, the TIFF file might be compressed, and Image can't handle those. Pbmplus can, one of these days I am going to package the Mac version so it can be used without MPW. There is also a program called Tiff sniff on zippy.nimh.nih.gov, but the only time I tried it, it crashed on a Quadra (I think, it was a while ago). From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com Tue Aug 24 21:02:33 1993 Received: from nova (sarnoff.com) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15135; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 21:02:33 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from maca.sarnoff.com by nova (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA05882; Tue, 24 Aug 93 22:02:21 EDT Message-Id: <9308250202.AA05882@nova> Date: 24 Aug 1993 21:19:55 U From: "Norm Hurst" Subject: Re: images from 35mm negs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu RE>images from 35mm negs >>>What is the maximum resolution images one can extract from 35mm film? I'm not much of an expert on film, but Kodak is just beginning to market an "electronic intermediate" system, "Cineon", that allows Hollywood movie people to do electronic effects on their films. The system is film-in/film-out and digital in between. The film industry is picky about their quality, so Kodak had to digitize each frame at an *extremely* high resolution -- much higher than "high" definition TV. HDTV is typically 1280x720 up to 1920x1080 (HxV). Kodak operates around 3000x2000. Is 9000x6000 pushing things? That's by far the highest resolution I've heard anyone suggest to date. There might be film out there that could support that sort of resolution, but it's probably very slow and very large. -Norm Hurst David Sarnoff Research Center From andrew@artemis.earth.monash.edu.au Wed Aug 25 07:54:40 1993 Received: from monu1.cc.monash.edu.au by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15671; Tue, 24 Aug 1993 21:54:53 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from artemis.earth.monash.edu.au by monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (5.61/1.34) id AA04647; Wed, 25 Aug 93 12:54:45 +1000 Received: from [130.194.169.99] by artemis.earth.monash.edu.au (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01081; Wed, 25 Aug 93 12:54:40 EST Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 12:54:40 EST Message-Id: <9308250254.AA01081@artemis.earth.monash.edu.au> To: From: andrew@artemis.earth.monash.edu.au (Andrew Matthews) Subject: Re: PC TIFF to MAC >When I've attempted to open TIFf files from PC software Image responds >with error messages. >Any suggestions on converting PC tiff files. A solution to this problem which I use is to open PC TIF's with Adobe Photoshop as PC TIF's and then to save them as MAC TIFF's or PICT's. Photoshop has built in the ability to recognise the difference between tiff images created on Intel and Motorola CPU's and open either. I don't pre-process the files in any way, just pop a PC disk in and let PC Exchange mount it and get PhotoShop to open them. Just for intrest, It's sometimes amusing to subscribe to the image list server from Australia as usually the time difference between Australia and most other places mean that I receive a number of messages first thing in the morning, and nothing till the next morning. However on days like today it seems like everyone in the US is working late, messages poping up during the day, Australian time. What's so special about Tuesday nights? Cheers Andrew Matthews Dept of Earth Sciences Monash University Victoria, Australia From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Wed Aug 25 01:14:04 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17643; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 04:14:12 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H25DMCMBIS00042V@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 05:14:04 EDT Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 05:14:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: User Macro Extensions beta test 2 uploaded to zippy To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H25DMCML5Y00042V@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This release includes a finished 16 bit arithmetic package including convolution, some sample macros, and the Quantile and CrestPathway packages written by Jacques van Helden . I converted them so that they are invoked as XYQuantile(quantile,h,v) instead of UserCode(1,quantile,h,v), etc., without requiring changes to globals.p, macros2.p, or macros1.p, as would have been required before. All of the 16 bit arithmetic routines were coded in assembler and MPW was used to get the hex machine language that Think Pascal likes. The convolution routine does not have a command period to abort it... maybe next time... This message includes some information about the convolution routine which I just now wrote... For more information, look at the package, which include source code, the application, and a (somewhat rough) set of macros that I used for testing. There is also a "Macros Reference Card" which is the Image manual appendix sorted by macro name and stored as an image text file. (The application has an icon for text files like the TIFF and PICT icons only it says TEXT. You may not see it unless you rebuild your desktop and maybe not even then, the only sure way to update icons is to delete all old copies and then rebuild the desktop, command option keys at startup). The convert 16 bit to 8 bit uses a 256 x 256 image as a lookup table. If you use thresholding, you can see exactly how the conversion is to be done. There is a macro command for creating this table, and a sample macro that uses it. The convolution routine uses several auxillary images. A flag image reports how many pixels contributed to the average at each point, and if it is not all zero to start, then the pixels corresponding to nonzero flag pixels are not convolved. (I needed this information / calculation rule for my project). The imput image is not overwritten. (BTW do not specify the output image as the same image as input image, I forgot to check for this). The kernel is a 32 bit image, (a 32 bit put pixel function is included) and the size of the ROI specifies the kernel dimensions. The kernel is rectangular, not necessarily square, and the center can be any point in the kernel. (Actually, come to think of it, the kernel did not need to be 32 bits, because the sum of all cells cannot exceed 32767, to avoid overflow when all pixels are 65535. The division is a signed 32 bit divide by the sum of the kernel cells which contributed to a given point). The mask image is used to exclude certain points from the calculation, while calculating an output value at those points. (This slightly unusual feature is the main reason I needed to write my own convolution in the first place, aside from needing 16 bit precision). I also took advantage of the presence of the image to use it to solve the problem of the edges of the image in an easy way. Since in the inner loop I have to check to see if each pixel should be included in the calculation by consulting the mask image, I also used the mask image to prevent use of pixels outside of the input image, while calculating convolved values for edge pixels. If you have a way of identifying certain pixels as noise, then you put nonzero values into the corresponding pixels of the mask image, run the convolution, and the output image has a good estimate for the missing values based on the surrounding pixels, and the noise value did not bias the average. Or, if you want to calculate a background image after removing small (or narrow) objects (like DNA molecules), then you mark the object pixels in the mask image, run the convolution, and you have a reasonable estimate of the background which "would have been" behind the object assuming that the background doesn't change much with position and the objects are small. If you only need the convolutions for object pixels, then use the flag image to eliminate calculations for most of the image. The output image must be the same size as the input, or actually, the ROI of the output must be same size as ROI of input. I plan to implement the "markup" window now available only in a version of 1.44 as a UMX, but it requires changes throughout Image. I hope to find a way to define a "User Window" type which would be of general use, and then have the markup window be an instance of a user window. From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Wed Aug 25 05:01:00 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18854; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 08:01:05 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA20552; Wed, 25 Aug 93 09:01:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 09:01:00 -0400 Message-Id: <9308251301.AA20552@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: images from 35mm negs >What is the maximum resolution images one can extract from 35mm film? I understood from a course I once took that the granularity of most films is about 4K x 4K of silver crystals. So that would be the max resolution, if everything else was perfect Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From SMASESM@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU Wed Aug 25 03:39:42 1993 Received: from umslvma.umsl.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19248; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 08:51:12 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308251351.AA19248@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from UMSLVMA by UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8110; Wed, 25 Aug 93 08:51:21 CDT Received: from UMSLVMA (SMASESM) by UMSLVMA (Mailer R2.08) with BSMTP id 2639; Wed, 25 Aug 93 08:51:20 CDT Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 08:39:42 CDT From: "Mike Sesma, U.M.-St. Louis" Subject: Re: PC TIFF to MAC To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 24 Aug 1993 20:22:35 -0500 from I learn something new everyday with e-mail and the Image crowd. I now know the advantages of TIFF over PICT formats. In any case, if you don't have Photoshop to open your DOS.TIFF files or another program that can read them, the DataViz translators will "convert" DOS.TIFF to MAC TIFF though there isn't supposed to be a difference. Thanks to all the regulars for setting me straight on the TIFF/PICT issue. I'm sure I will embarrass myself again as I take advantage of the Image educational environment. Hope you all don't mind. P.S. I'm not aware of anything special about Tuesday afternoons. From Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU Sun Aug 25 06:13:53 1993 Received: from dartvax.dartmouth.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19482; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 09:14:02 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from donner.dartmouth.edu by dartvax.dartmouth.edu (5.65+D5/4.5HUB) id AA08333; Wed, 25 Aug 93 10:13:55 -0400 Message-Id: <6240512@donner.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 25 Aug 93 10:13:53 EDT From: Charles.P.Daghlian@Dartmouth.EDU (Charles P. Daghlian) Subject: Re: PICT vs TIFF files. To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu --- You wrote: BTW, is almost an oxymoron to "convert an IBM TIFF file to Mac TIFF." TIFF is TIFF, period (assuming a properly compliant reader...). --- end of quoted material --- Many TIFF readers are not properly compliant, so this is not so moronic as it might appear to be. From djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu Wed Aug 25 04:14:07 1993 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19522; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 09:18:19 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by wugate.wustl.edu (5.65c+/WUSTL-0.3) with SMTP id AA12177; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 09:14:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 09:14:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199308251414.AA12177@wugate.wustl.edu> From: djm@cidmv1.wustl.edu (D.J. Meyer) To: "nih-image@soils.umn.edu"@WUGATE.wustl.edu Subject: Re: images from 35mm negs i've read rough approximations that 35mm will give you about 20million pixels. photo cd maxes at 6million (now). service is anywhere from $.70 to $2.00 per photo. depending on your location. reading the full resolution image off a cd rom takes a while, so if you want rapid access, you'll want to copy them to a faster media. dj meyer From SMIT@CABO.AGRO.NL Wed Aug 25 17:57:00 1993 Received: from hearnvax.nic.surfnet.nl by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19889; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 10:03:17 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from AGRO02 by HEARNVAX.nic.SURFnet.nl (PMDF V4.2-12 #3330) id <01H264C6R21C006QA7@HEARNVAX.nic.SURFnet.nl>; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 16:57:33 MET Received: from CABO.AGRO.NL (CABO1) by AGRO.NL (PMDF V4.2-12 #4885) id <01H264BXVYRK004EFR@AGRO.NL>; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 16:57:13 MET Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 16:57 +0100 (MET) From: "A.L. SMIT" Subject: Re: PC TIFF to MAC To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From pruskyg@hg.uleth.ca Wed Aug 25 04:14:42 1993 Received: from mr.uleth.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20554; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 11:12:10 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V3.3 VAX) id 30064; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 10:14:49 MDT Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 10:14:42 MDT From: pruskyg@hg.uleth.ca To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <009718B9.1D32E480.30064@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Re: images from 35mm negs Does anyone out there know whether Image can take advantage of the second processer in the new Centris 660 AV or is there no real advantage over the Centris 650 as far as speed with Image? Second, can Image take advantage of the onboard video capture in the system on this machine? I know that there is only one Nubus slot and I need at least two if I can't use the onboard frame graber. It seems like an interesting machine for video processing. Glen Prusky Department of Psychology University of Lethbridge Lethbridge, AB Canada T1K 3M4 pruskyg@hg.uleth.ca From @ANLVM.CTD.ANL.GOV:ZALUZEC@ANLEMC.BITNET Wed Aug 25 11:44:16 1993 Received: from anlvm.ctd.anl.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20873; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 11:44:16 -0500 Return-Path: <@ANLVM.CTD.ANL.GOV:ZALUZEC@ANLEMC.BITNET> Message-Id: <199308251644.AA20873@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from ANLVM by ANLVM.CTD.ANL.GOV (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2ANL-MX) with BSMTP id 8023; Wed, 25 Aug 93 11:45:08 CDT Received: from ANLEMC.BITNET (ZALUZEC) by ANLVM (Mailer R2.07B) with BSMTP id 0977; Wed, 25 Aug 93 11:45:07 CDT Date: 25-AUG-1993 11:32:26.02 From: "Nestor J. Zaluzec (708)-252-5075, -4964" To: nih-image@soils.umn.EDU Subject: Resolution of Film X-Anje-To: GATEWAY::"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Anje-Cc: ZALUZEC Ultimate all resolution is tied to the grain size of the silver halides crystals in film. Typically in film we us in electron microscopy the grain size is ~ 5-20 microns. The smaller the grain the higher the resolution but "slower" the film and vice versa. The same principle holds for photgraphic (i.e. light) films. If you assume for the moment a grain size of 10 microns then resolution of "10 micron" grain film is 2540 pixels/inch (dpi). Another useful rule of thumb. 300 dpi corresponds to a spatial resolution of about 85 microns and 3000 dpi about 8.5 microns, hence when digitizing electron microscope film any digitization beyond about 3000 dpi is empty resolution as there is nothing there to see other than the individual grains of the film. Nestor J. Zaluzec ANL EM Center From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu Wed Aug 25 16:53:04 1993 Received: from Sdsc.Edu (sds.sdsc.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21033; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 11:53:12 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 93 16:53:04 GMT From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten) Message-Id: <930825165304.2020da37@sds.sdsc.edu> Subject: Re: images from 35mm negs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH The commonly stated information content of a Kodachrome 35 mm image is said to be greater than 20 Megapixels. The high-end Nikon scanner does about 6K x 4.8 K, and costs about $10K. But be forewarned that a single RGB image can require 72 MB of disk for storage. SciTex markets a scanner with about the same resolution, and can accept larger pieces of film. I ;have heard of people using the Nikon scanner to digitize histological specimens on glass slides. I don't know how they handle the focus plane problem, or any other details. Harvey Karten From glenmac@u.washington.edu Wed Aug 25 03:01:46 1993 Received: from carson.u.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21120; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 12:04:20 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by carson.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA25080; Wed, 25 Aug 93 10:02:47 -0700 X-Sender: glenmac@carson.u.washington.edu Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 10:01:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Macdonald Subject: Re: PICT vs TIFF files. To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <6240512@donner.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii As the author of Imagery points out, even the developers of the TIFF standard don't follow it. On Wed, 25 Aug 1993, Charles P. Daghlian wrote: > --- You wrote: > BTW, is almost an oxymoron to "convert an IBM TIFF file to Mac TIFF." TIFF > is TIFF, period (assuming a properly compliant reader...). > --- end of quoted material --- > Many TIFF readers are not properly compliant, so this is not so moronic as it > might appear to be. > > From vokey@hg.uleth.ca Wed Aug 25 06:32:23 1993 Received: from mr.uleth.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21915; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 13:30:03 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V3.3 VAX) id 30493; Wed, 25 Aug 1993 12:32:44 MDT Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1993 12:32:23 MDT From: vokey@hg.uleth.ca To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <009718CC.59681F20.30493@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Add to the list of scanner plugins that work with Image... The scanner plugin for the LaCie SilverScanner works just fine with Image, although I've only tested it with images up to 8-bit, 300 dpi. Is there a plugin available to use VideoSpigotLC with Image? John R. Vokey From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@ulb.ac.be Thu Aug 26 05:51:02 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA27344; Thu, 26 Aug 1993 04:54:20 -0500 Return-Path: <@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@ulb.ac.be> Received: from rc1.vub.ac.be by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Thu, 26 Aug 93 11:54:07 +0200 Received: from is1e.vub.ac.be by rc1.vub.ac.be (4.1/RC1-930728) id AA07762; Thu, 26 Aug 93 11:56:29 MDT Received: by is1e.vub.ac.be (5.61/BFUCC-920211) id AA15945; Thu, 26 Aug 93 11:51:03 +0200 From: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be (Van Helden Jacques) Message-Id: <9308260951.AA15945@is1e.vub.ac.be> Subject: wait for microseconds To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 11:51:02 MDT Cc: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] I imported ImageTimer (an adaptation of Image by Ed Huff), which allows you to measure small time intervals (down to 100 microseconds). I intend to use it for the control of the stepper motor of a filter wheel. For this, I have to do a precise and fast timing. However, I do not know how to tell Image to pause for an accurate delay (say 1 millisec). At the moment, I use the following routine: procedure microwait (myDelay: Longint); var elapsed, TotalElapsed: LongInt; begin elapsed := 0; TotalElapsed := 0; repeat StartTimer2; TotalElapsed := TotalElapsed + elapsed; elapsed := StopTimer(Timer2) - timerTime; until TotalElapsed > myDelay; end; When I test this routine with a delay of 1000 ms, I get pauses 3 times too long, and quite variable. For 100 tests: average pause=1960 microsecs, std=118, min=2656, max=3330 Any suggestion ? Jacques van Helden jvanheld@ulb.ac.be From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@ulb.ac.be Thu Aug 26 05:59:07 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA27409; Thu, 26 Aug 1993 05:02:08 -0500 Return-Path: <@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@ulb.ac.be> Received: from rc1.vub.ac.be by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Thu, 26 Aug 93 12:02:03 +0200 Received: from is1e.vub.ac.be by rc1.vub.ac.be (4.1/RC1-930728) id AA08002; Thu, 26 Aug 93 12:04:34 MDT Received: by is1e.vub.ac.be (5.61/BFUCC-920211) id AA16544; Thu, 26 Aug 93 11:59:07 +0200 From: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be (Van Helden Jacques) Message-Id: <9308260959.AA16544@is1e.vub.ac.be> Subject: axon tracking To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 11:59:07 MDT Cc: jvanheld@ulb.ac.be X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] A conversation of these last days dealt with analysis of axon images. The "Crest Pathway" routine could be of some help for axon tracking. This routine follows the darkest pathway in an image, by reiterately stepping from a position to the darkest neighbour. I posted it in zippy.nimh.nih.gov[128.231.98.32], in the directory /pub/nih-image/contrib the name of the Stuffit archive is Image_1.51_QuantCrest.sit.hqx Jacques van Helden jvanheld@ulb.ac.be From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Thu Aug 26 11:01:10 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA02008; Thu, 26 Aug 1993 15:03:36 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H27EFESDLC000CQS@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Thu, 26 Aug 1993 15:01:10 EDT Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 15:01:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: Re: wait for microseconds To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H27EFETPTU000CQS@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I don't have the code or manuals in front of me right now, but basically to get a precise time, you have to use the timeout function. In your macro procedure, you write something like start timer(timeout routine, delay) [don't know argument order etc] where timeout routine is a function that sets timedOut := true. Then after the start timer call you write while not timedOut do ; This waits for timedOut to become true, which will happen within a few hundreds of microseconds of the proper time, the actual delay being a random variable whose standard deviation would be interesting to know, and which depends on network traffic, etc. From coombsb@ohsu.EDU Thu Aug 26 14:07:21 1993 Received: from steele.ohsu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA05635; Thu, 26 Aug 1993 23:10:07 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from flip (flip.ohsu.edu) by steele.ohsu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14341; Thu, 26 Aug 93 21:09:59 PDT Received: by flip (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01158; Thu, 26 Aug 93 21:07:21 PDT Date: Thu, 26 Aug 93 21:07:21 PDT From: coombsb@ohsu.EDU (Bernard Coombs) Message-Id: <9308270407.AA01158@flip> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: unsubscribe nih-image unsubscribe nih-image From kehrer@informatik.uni-ulm.de Fri Aug 27 12:26:22 1993 Received: from julia.informatik.uni-ulm.de by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07059; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 03:26:44 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from fonzo ([134.60.77.15]) by julia.informatik.uni-ulm.de (4.1/UniUlm-info-1.1r) id AA18394; Fri, 27 Aug 93 10:26:22 +0200 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 10:26:22 +0200 Message-Id: <9308270826.AA18394@julia.informatik.uni-ulm.de> From: Juergen Kehrer To: , nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Looking for JPEG Source Code X-Text-File-Info: "jpeg SourceCode", part 1 of 0 I have been asked to look for JPEG-SourceCode. We already have the DJPEG-SourceCode, but for our purpose (to write a imco/imdc JPEG Component for the DSP 3210 Signal-Processor in the new Quadra 840AV) this is not handy enough. Does anybody of the image-group have information if Apple (or anybody else) is developing such components? Thanks in advance, Juergen Kehrer University of Ulm/Germany kehrer@informatik.uni-ulm.de From @TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:RPRDANI@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL Fri Aug 27 17:09:30 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07186; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 03:40:58 -0500 Return-Path: <@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:RPRDANI@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL> Received: from TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL (MAILER@TECHNION) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2852TZN4WAUTLNF@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 03:40:29 CDT Received: from TECHNION (NJE origin RPRDANI@TECHNION) by TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 6467; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 11:40:24 +0200 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 11:39:30 +0530 (IST) From: dd Subject: Re: CCD Camera and frame grabbe In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 13 Aug 1993 11:05:31 -0500 from To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2852TZN4YAUTLNF@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT 2nd try: Does anybody have the FAX number of CORECO (for very fast frame grabber). Thanks in advance dani From nmrsys@bib.panum.ku.dk Fri Aug 27 12:46:14 1993 Received: from danpost.uni-c.dk by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07354; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 03:57:13 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from PANBIB.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 (daemon@localhost) by danpost.uni-c.dk (8.6.beta.9/8.6.beta.7) with SMTP id KAA13954 for <>; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:46:15 +0200 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:46:14 +0200 From: nmrsys@bib.panum.ku.dk Message-Id: <199308270846.KAA13954@danpost.uni-c.dk> X-Authentication-Warning: danpost.uni-c.dk: Host localhost claimed to be PANBIB.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 X-Authentication-Warning: danpost.uni-c.dk: daemon owned process doing -bs To: IN::""@bib.panum.ku.dk>"@bib.panum.ku.dk Subject: 3d imaging Multiple recipients of list Does anyone know of a good 3d rendering program, that also has the ability to edit the actual 3d block. I know of the program called spyglass, but is that as good as they come. Any suggestions would be helpful. Kenneth Smith, University of Copenhagen, Panum Institut, nmr-center. E-mail:nmrsys@bib.panum.ku.dk From @TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:RPRDANI@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL Fri Aug 27 20:25:17 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08738; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 06:58:59 -0500 Return-Path: <@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL:RPRDANI@TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL> Received: from TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL (MAILER@TECHNION) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H28BYKEY68AUTLJB@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 06:58:08 CDT Received: from TECHNION (NJE origin RPRDANI@TECHNION) by TECHNION.TECHNION.AC.IL (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 6880; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 14:57:43 +0200 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 14:55:17 +0530 (IST) From: RPRDANI@TECHNION.BITNET Subject: Re: 3d imaging In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 27 Aug 1993 04:01:37 -0500 from To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H28BYW5GFUAUTLJB@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I suggest you contact Noah Clinch Fairfield Imaging; I saw some lovely 3D rendering with editing on the stack last week in Sussex. His e-mail: 100042.2435@CompuServe.com DanielDagan From mk@nwu.edu Fri Aug 27 02:03:35 1993 Received: from merle.acns.nwu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09177; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 08:03:42 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from elvex32.acns.nwu.edu by merle.acns.nwu.edu with SMTP (16.6/16.2) id AA22740; Fri, 27 Aug 93 08:03:33 -0500 Message-Id: <9308271303.AA22740@merle.acns.nwu.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 08:03:35 -0600 To: From: mk@nwu.edu (M. Khokha) X-Sender: mkhokha@merle.acns.nwu.edu Subject: Re: 3d imaging >Multiple recipients of list > >Does anyone know of a good 3d rendering program, that also has the ability to >edit the actual 3d block. I know of the program called spyglass, but is that >as good as they come. >Any suggestions would be helpful. > DIP station from the Hayden Image Processing Group (HIPG) has a 3D rendering module that is not bad (uses a ray tracing algorithm). Also VayTek and Vital Images have software for the Mac using alpha blending I think. However I don't think that the Mac is a great platform for 3D rendering of biological tissue. Our lab had to go to a Silicon Graphics machine with VoxelView. Major bucks though. Mustafa Khokha Northwestern University Medical School mk@nwu.edu P.S. email me if you want the details, and I'll dig it up. From cammer@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu Fri Aug 27 06:08:52 1993 Received: from alsys1.aecom.yu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09769; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 09:14:24 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by alsys1.aecom.yu.edu id AA29846 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for nih-image@soils.umn.edu); Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:14:17 -0400 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:08:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Cammer Subject: Re: 3d imaging To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: Michael Cammer In-Reply-To: <199308270846.KAA13954@danpost.uni-c.dk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 27 Aug 1993 nmrsys@bib.panum.ku.dk wrote: > Does anyone know of a good 3d rendering program, that also has the ability to > edit the actual 3d block. I know of the program called spyglass, but is that > as good as they come. > Any suggestions would be helpful. VoxelView and VoxelMath are extremely powerful for volume reconstruction from serial sections. We have had very good results with serial sections that are properly registered (VoxelView does not have decent registration capabilities). However, the package is as expensive as powerful and we have only used it on a Silicon Graphics workstation so we cannot vouch for the Macintosh version. -Michael cammer@aecom.yu.edu From pdevries@macc.wisc.edu Fri Aug 27 04:30:53 1993 Received: from vms2.macc.wisc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10366; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:27:36 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from rubble.bocklabs.wisc.edu by vms2.macc.wisc.edu; Fri, 27 Aug 93 10:25 CDT Message-Id: <23082710255788@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:30:53 -0600 From: (Pete DeVries) Subject: 3D - Mac VoxelView To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Sender: pdevries@vms2.macc.wisc.edu > >On Fri, 27 Aug 1993 nmrsys@bib.panum.ku.dk wrote: >> Does anyone know of a good 3d rendering program, that also has the ability to >> edit the actual 3d block. I know of the program called spyglass, but is that >> as good as they come. >> Any suggestions would be helpful. > >VoxelView and VoxelMath are extremely powerful for volume reconstruction >from serial sections. We have had very good results with serial sections >that are properly registered (VoxelView does not have decent registration >capabilities). However, the package is as expensive as >powerful and we have only used it on a Silicon Graphics >workstation so we cannot vouch for the Macintosh version. We have been using the Macintosh version of VoxelView for about a year and we like it very much. We are a multiuser facility and it is much easier to teach people to use VoxelView/Mac than the SGI version. VoxelView/Mac does not have all the features of the SGI version but by using it in conjunction with other Mac programs we can actually get more work done. On a Quadra 950 is runs about as fast as the SGI version did on our SGI 80GT. VoxelView Mac costs about $1295. -Pete ------------------------------------------------ Pete DeVries Information Processing Consultant University of Wisconsin - Madison Laboratory of Molecular Biology (608) 262-3403 Integrated Microscopy Resource (608) 263-6288 Email: pdevries@macc.wisc.edu FAX (608) 262-4570 ------------------------------------------------- From ongmit@astro.ocis.temple.edu Fri Aug 27 07:41:11 1993 Received: from astro.ocis.temple.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10548; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:41:18 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by astro.ocis.temple.edu (5.61/25) id AA16218; Fri, 27 Aug 93 11:41:12 -0400 From: ongmit@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Joseph G. Ong) Message-Id: <9308271541.AA16218@astro.ocis.temple.edu> Subject: Re: 3d imaging To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 11:41:11 EDT X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] There are quite a few volume rendering packages out there. Here are 3 that I know are available for the Silicon Graphics machines: 1. Bob - stands for "Brick Of Bytes"; allows for "quick and dirty" viewing of your volume; uses alpha blending; available via anonymous ftp to: pi1.arc.umn.edu 2. ANALYZE - developed at the Mayo Clinic; very extensive, powerful program; Contact is Dennis P. Hanson (dph@mayo.edu), phone: (507) 284-8809, FAX: (507) 284-1632 3. VoxelView - I have only seen it used once, but it was very impressive (and, supposedly, very expensive). I think the company is Vital Images. I've found that a fast CPU (e.g. R4000), lots of RAM (e.g. > 32 Mb), and and good graphics card (e.g. VGX) make the volume rendering much more efficient. Hope this sheds some light... - Joseph G. Ong Temple University School of Medicine ongmit@astro.ocis.temple.edu From CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu Fri Aug 27 05:55:00 1993 Received: from vms2.macc.wisc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10731; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 10:56:55 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from VMSmail by vms2.macc.wisc.edu; Fri, 27 Aug 93 10:55 CDT Message-Id: <23082710551509@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 10:55 CDT From: Charles Thomas Subject: Re: 3d imaging To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu",CHARLEST Hopefully you won't be overloaded with messages saying the same thing, but... We use VoxelView from Vital Images in Fairfield, IA. It allows 3D visualization of data sets, rotational animations, allows application of different LUT's, allows exclusion of individual voxel values, allows sub-volume rendering (to show interior details, cut-aways, etc.), and allows the application of different opacity curves to made features transluscent, opaque or non-visible. If you are interested in more details, email my personal address and I'll fax you some information. Charles Thomas IMR UW-Madison Charlest@vms.macc.wisc.edu From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com Fri Aug 27 13:33:50 1993 Received: from nova (nova.sarnoff.com) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12665; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 13:33:50 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from maca.sarnoff.com by nova (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA20482; Fri, 27 Aug 93 14:33:25 EDT Message-Id: <9308271833.AA20482@nova> Date: 27 Aug 1993 14:02:23 U From: "Norm Hurst" Subject: CT movies? To: "NIH Image user group" CT movies? 8/27/93 1:52 PM How do I find out the format of the files on pub/nih-image/images/...? Some have corresponding text files. Some are TIFF, so the format is built-in. But some, like ... CT_Head_Movie.cpt.bin ...defy me. Does "cpt" mean compact pro? If so, what is the .bin for? The "knee".txt file describes CT_Head_Movie as 256x256 x107 frames, but that product is larger than the number of bytes in the file. From kyzy@rice.edu Fri Aug 27 09:20:45 1993 Received: from moe.rice.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13215; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 14:21:02 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.42.105.7] (erinna.rice.edu) by moe.rice.edu (AA29793); Fri, 27 Aug 93 14:20:47 CDT Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 14:20:45 CDT Message-Id: <9308271920.AA29793@moe.rice.edu> To: From: kyzy@rice.edu Subject: Re: CT movies? >But some, like ... > >CT_Head_Movie.cpt.bin > >..defy me. Does "cpt" mean compact pro? If so, what is the .bin for? The >"knee".txt file describes CT_Head_Movie as 256x256 x107 frames, but that >product is larger than the number of bytes in the file. CT_Head_Movie is the file name .cpt means it was compressed with Compact Pro .bin means that it is a McBinary file (set ftp mode to binary or MacBinary) I am quoting from the "Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list for comp.sys.mac.comm" ..... How a Macintosh file has been translated and compressed for transmission is indicated by its suffix. Normally a file will have a name similar in form to: filename.xxx.yyy, where: .xxx indicates how it was compressed .yyy indicates how it was translated Usually, .xxx is one of: .cpt, .dd, .sea, .sit Usually, .yyy is one of: .bin, .hqx, .image To convert a file back to its native Macintosh format, you will typically need to go through one step per suffix. For example, the filename "Swatch.cpt.hqx" indicates that a Compact Pro archive (.cpt) "Swatch" has been translated to BinHex (.hqx). To recreate the file(s) in the original archive, you must first 'undo' the BinHex transformation, creating a Compact Pro archive, and then open the Compact Pro archive and extract the file(s) in the archive. ..... NOTE: Stuffit Expander will automatically perform both operations for you. From ongmit@astro.ocis.temple.edu Fri Aug 27 11:47:04 1993 Received: from astro.ocis.temple.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13569; Fri, 27 Aug 1993 14:47:16 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by astro.ocis.temple.edu (5.61/25) id AA07503; Fri, 27 Aug 93 15:47:05 -0400 From: ongmit@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Joseph G. Ong) Message-Id: <9308271947.AA07503@astro.ocis.temple.edu> Subject: Re: Bob software at pi1.arc.umn.edu? To: djchin@dsrna.agi.org (daniel j. chin) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 93 15:47:04 EDT Cc: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: <9308271806.AA10505@dsrna.agi.org> from "daniel j. chin" at "Aug 27, 93 11:06 am" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] > i saw your post regarding Bob, so i ftp'd there but > it wasnt there anymore. Could it have been at > another site? > > Daniel Chin > Research Scientist, Agouron Institute > My apologies... yes, Bob is there (at pi1.arc.umn.edu or ftp.arc.umn.edu), but the program is: /pub/gvl.tar.Z Please e-mail me if you have any trouble extracting the program. For those who missed my earlier post, Bob is a "quick and dirty" volume rendering package available via anonymous ftp for the Silicon Graphics computers. - Joseph G. Ong Temple University School of Medicine ongmit@astro.ocis.temple.edu From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Mon Aug 30 03:43:40 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA05412; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 06:43:56 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H2CK0NUOLC000N57@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 07:43:40 EDT Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 07:43:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: Image 1.51UMXb3 with timer, 16 bits, quantile, etc. To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2CK0NVHJ6000N57@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Image 1.51UMXb3 will be uploaded to zippy.nimh.nih.gov into /pub/nih-image/contrib shortly, as a separate .sit.hqx file for the application and another for the source. The timer package has been converted to a UMX style package (user macro extension) and is now reasonably easy to use: you can measure elapsed times, and delay for precise times, without writing any Pascal code. The other features are still as announced previously. I plan to implement a "files" UMX which will give the ability to loop over all files in a selected directory without the requirement that all of the files have predictable names. The package with application only also has some demonstration macro files including one which shows how to measure elapsed time and delay for specified times, and one which shows how to use the 16 bit arithmetic package. Please let me know if you have tried the package. I will try to answer any questions you might have. If you want to find out how to write a UMX, get the source and look at UMacroDef.p, UMSample.p, and UMacroRun.p. I hope that the extensive comments are clear. From set@eru.mt.luth.se Mon Aug 30 17:16:27 1993 Received: from eru.mt.luth.se by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA06771; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 09:16:41 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.240.1.176] (osse219.mt.luth.se) by eru.mt.luth.se with SMTP (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/IDA-1.2.8-NS) id AA21653; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:16:27 +0200 Message-Id: <199308301416.AA21653@eru.mt.luth.se> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:16:27 +0100 To: From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg) Subject: Re: Image 1.51UMXb3 with timer, 16 bits, quantile, etc. X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable >Image 1.51UMXb3 will be uploaded to zippy.nimh.nih.gov into >/pub/nih-image/contrib shortly, as a separate .sit.hqx file for >the application and another for the source. > >The timer package has been converted to a UMX style package >(user macro extension) and is now reasonably easy to use: >you can measure elapsed times, and delay for precise times, >without writing any Pascal code. The other features are >still as announced previously. Nice implemention I assume that you have defined the macro Crest as: var AvarageDistance: integer; MaxAngle ,MaxCount: integer; macro 'Crest Pathway'; begin RequiresUser('crestpathway'); CrestPathway(AvarageDistance ,MaxAngle ,MaxCount ); end; Will try it tomorrow. ********************************************************* * * * Sven-Erik Tiberg * * Div. of energy / mashineenginnering * * Lulea University of Technology * * Lulea Sweden * * email set@eru.mt.luth.se * * Fax. S-(0)920-91047 * * Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638 * * * ********************************************************* From rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov Mon Aug 30 06:31:47 1993 Received: from jupiter.ESD.ORNL.GOV by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA06980; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 09:32:46 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from esdupx.esd.ornl.gov by jupiter.esd.ornl.gov (5.65/1.34) id AA09364; Mon, 30 Aug 93 10:32:32 -0400 From: "Rupert Wimmer" Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 10:31:47 EDT Message-Id: <2190.rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov_POPMail/PC_3.2.2> Reply-To: X-Popmail-Charset: English To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Quadra 840AV advantages ? Macintosh offers new AV (audio-visual) computers (Quadra 840AV, Centris 660AV) and promise great power for video processing (40-Mhz 68040 processor with a 66-Mhz digital signal processor (DSP)). I am new to Macintosh and new to NIH-Image so my simple question is: Does the AV`s really bring an advantage over the Quadra 800, Centris 650 ? Can Image take advantage of the onboard signal processor ? Thanks for all comments ! Rupert *------------------------------------------------------------------* | Rupert Wimmer Environmental Science Division | | Phone: (615)574-7358 Oak Ridge National Laboratory | | Fax: (615)576-9939 P.O. Box 2008, Bldg. 1506 | | rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov Oak Ridge, Tennessee 37831-6034 | *------------------------------------------------------------------* From bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu Mon Aug 30 07:31:28 1993 Received: from pennsy.med.jhu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07405; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 10:18:18 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.220.90.219] by pennsy.med.jhu.edu (5.65/1.34) id AA10048; Mon, 30 Aug 93 11:31:28 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 11:31:28 -0400 Message-Id: <9308301531.AA10048@pennsy.med.jhu.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu (Brett A. Simon) Subject: X-Windows emulation Does anyone have a recommendation for an X-windows emulator to run on a Mac for remotely running a Sun Sparcstation? I'd like to be able to control file transfer from a CT scanner to the workstation, and then from the Sun to my Mac, all from one place. Thanks. -Brett Simon _____ Brett Simon (bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu) Dept. of Anesthesia and Critical Care Medicine Johns Hopkins Hospital (410) 614-1515 From wayne@helix.nih.gov Mon Aug 30 11:02:36 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07826; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 11:05:19 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA03767; Mon, 30 Aug 93 11:21:31 -0400 Message-Id: <9308301521.AA03767@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 11:02:36 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Quadra 840AV advantages ? >Macintosh offers new AV (audio-visual) computers (Quadra 840AV, Centris >660AV) and promise great power for video processing (40-Mhz 68040 processor >with a 66-Mhz digital signal processor (DSP)). I am new to Macintosh and new >to NIH-Image so my simple question is: Does the AV`s really bring an >advantage over the Quadra 800, Centris 650 ? Can Image take advantage of >the onboard signal processor ? Thanks for all comments ! For running NIH Image, the primary advantage the new AV Macs is greater speed due to their higher clock rates. The 840AV has runs at 40Mhz versus 33Mhz for the Quadra 800 and the Centris 660AV runs at 25Mhz versus 20Mhz for the Centris 610. The only way Image can take advantage of the AV Macs' built-in DSP chip and frame grabber is using Photoshop compatible plug-ins. I don't know of any plug-ins that support the DSP chip or frame grabber, but I expect someone is working on them. --wayne From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Mon Aug 30 08:34:13 1993 Received: from GATEKEEPER.ROCHE.COM by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08070; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 11:34:25 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by gatekeeper.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA13630; Mon, 30 Aug 93 12:34:13 -0400 Received: by mailgate.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA02171; Mon, 30 Aug 93 12:33:24 -0400 From: sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Message-Id: <9308301633.AA02171@mailgate.roche.com> Received: from rnisd0.enet; by inet.enet; Mon, 30 Aug 93 12:34:13 EDT Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 12:34:13 EDT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: FDA validation of NIH-Image Has anybody out there use NIH-Image for morphometric analysis of histopathologic samples in a toxicology/Pathology department in a FDA-regulated industry? I am in the process of writting a validation manuscript for image here at ROCHE and there are several issues that are difficult to deal with... Please call me or send me a direct message if you do.... Thank you Juan I. Sarmiento Department of Toxicology and Pathology Hoffmann-La Roche, INC. 340 Kingsland street Nutley, NJ 07110 (201) 235 43 42 Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.COM From grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU Mon Aug 30 02:52:58 1993 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08345; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:00:14 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by itsa.ucsf.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/GSC4.22) id AA31242; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 09:52:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 09:52:58 -0700 From: grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU (Gerald Cunha) Message-Id: <9308301652.AA31242@itsa.ucsf.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Viewing 3D Stereo Pairs I have just began using the 3D reconstruction feature of Image and find the feature awesome. The ability to do 3D localizations of anything that can be visualized histologically on serial sections is very valuable. I found the best way to present the data is by generating stereo pairs which can then be printed on a laser printer. I am able to view these pairs easily by crossing my eyes. However, a number of people in my lab are 'stereo impaired' and are not able to do this (particularly our lab's PI). Does anyone know of a viewer that can accomodate this 8x11 printer output? The viewers I have been able to get a hold of don't work. Joel Brody grcunha@itsa.ucsf.edu From wayne@helix.nih.gov Mon Aug 30 12:21:05 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08721; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:23:49 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA04393; Mon, 30 Aug 93 12:40:01 -0400 Message-Id: <9308301640.AA04393@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:21:05 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: PC TIFF to MAC >When I've attempted to open TIFf files from PC software Image responds >with error messages, usually telling me that the file has an improper >header or that it is an unrecognized format. The files were brought onto >the mac with Apple File Exchange. > The only time I nneded to do this was with some CorelDraw files >saved as .tif. Attempts to convert them with Imagery failed. > Any suggestions on converting PC tiff files, or is there something >odd about Coreldraw? There is no need to do any conversion since Image can directly open TIFF files created on a PC. You do need to use the Import command, however, unless the file type has been set to 'TIFF'. Instead of using Apple File Exchange, try using Access PC or DOS Mounter. They allow Image to directly open files on DOS disks. --wayne From dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu Mon Aug 30 07:32:32 1993 Received: from bmrl.med.uiuc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08794; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:32:43 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by bmrl.med.uiuc.edu id AA16198 (5.67a/IDA-1.4.2 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu); Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:32:32 -0500 From: Doug Morris Message-Id: <199308301732.AA16198@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: X-Windows emulation To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:32:32 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9308301531.AA10048@pennsy.med.jhu.edu> from "Brett A. Simon" at Aug 30, 93 10:19:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 515 Try MacX it is available from APDA. Try anonymous ftp at ftp.apple.com. > > Does anyone have a recommendation for an X-windows emulator to run on a Mac > for remotely running a Sun Sparcstation? I'd like to be able to control > file transfer from a CT scanner to the workstation, and then from the Sun > to my Mac, all from one place. > Thanks. > -Brett Simon > _____ > Brett Simon (bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu) > Dept. of Anesthesia and Critical Care Medicine > Johns Hopkins Hospital > (410) 614-1515 > > > From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Mon Aug 30 09:36:19 1993 Received: from GATEKEEPER.ROCHE.COM by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08941; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:36:30 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by gatekeeper.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA13918; Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:36:17 -0400 Received: by mailgate.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA02502; Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:36:13 -0400 From: sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Message-Id: <9308301736.AA02502@mailgate.roche.com> Received: from rnisd0.enet; by inet.enet; Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:36:19 EDT Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:36:19 EDT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Mon Aug 30 09:37:47 1993 Received: from GATEKEEPER.ROCHE.COM by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08960; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:37:59 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by gatekeeper.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA13927; Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:37:46 -0400 Received: by mailgate.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA02507; Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:36:31 -0400 From: sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Message-Id: <9308301736.AA02507@mailgate.roche.com> Received: from rnisd0.enet; by inet.enet; Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:37:47 EDT Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:37:47 EDT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: FDA regulations Has anybody out there use NIH-Image for morphometric analysis of histopathologic samples in a toxicology/Pathology department in a FDA-regulated industry? I am in the process of writting a validation manuscript for image here at ROCHE and there are several issues that are difficult to deal with... Please call me or send me a direct message if you do.... Thank you Juan I. Sarmiento Department of Toxicology and Pathology Hoffmann-La Roche, INC. 340 Kingsland street Nutley, NJ 07110 (201) 235 3907 Sarmienu@RNISD0.DNET.ROCHE.COM From vavra@Arco.COM Mon Aug 30 07:50:09 1993 Received: from Arco.COM (inetg1.Arco.COM) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09134; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:49:26 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.201.30.85] by Arco.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02038; Mon, 30 Aug 93 12:49:12 CDT Message-Id: <9308301749.AA02038@Arco.COM> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:50:09 -0500 To: From: vavra@Arco.COM X-Sender: drrclv@inetg1.arco.com Subject: Re: Sort Palette I have recently downloaded NIH Image 1.51 and 1.52B2 and I have noticed that the "Sort palette by hue" is no longer supported. I noticed this thread earlier on the net: >>Mostly we use Sort Palette to select objects based on color . >Why can't you convert the composite color image to RGB and then use the RGB >to HSV command? > If I try to convert the composite color (custom CLUT) ->RGB->HSV I end up with a false color image. Although it allows selection of objects by color easily, without the original color (custom CLUT) image it is not very intuitive to determine whether the color filters are actually set to correctly filter the objects in question. Is there some way easy way to filter by hue using the original "custom" CLUT? --------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Vavra vavra@arco.com Reservoir Geology (214) 754-6420 ARCO E.P.T From phskcc@emrycc.cc.emory.edu Fri Aug 30 08:53:00 1993 Received: from emoryu1.cc.emory.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09239; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 12:52:14 -0500 Received: from emrycc.cc.emory.edu by emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (5.65/Emory_cc.3.4.6) via SMTP id AA18026 ; Mon, 30 Aug 93 13:52:02 -0400 Return-Path: phskcc@emrycc.cc.emory.edu Message-Id: <9308301752.AA18026@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> Date: 30 Aug 93 13:53:00 EST From: "K. C. CHAN" Subject: Re: Quadra 840AV advantages ? To: "nih-image" Wayne: Do your mean that NIH Image can not use the built-in frame grabber of Quadra 840AV or Centris 660AV to capture video? If so, will you make this happensoon? I think the AVs and the NIH Image are perfect match, don't you? K.C. Chan Physics, Emory University Phskcc@emrycc From jamiel@sybase.com Mon Aug 30 03:30:23 1993 Received: from halon.sybase.com by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09757; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 13:28:36 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA02518; Mon, 30 Aug 93 11:29:39 PDT Received: from ralph.sybgate.sybase.com by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.2) id AA16656; Mon, 30 Aug 93 11:28:22 PDT Received: from [130.214.134.4] by ralph.sybgate.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.1) id AA09129; Mon, 30 Aug 93 11:28:27 PDT Message-Id: <9308301828.AA09129@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 11:30:23 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence) X-Sender: jamiel@ralph.sybase.com Subject: Re: X-Windows emulation Content-Length: 624 Won't be there- it is a commercial product. At 12:34 PM 8/30/93 -0500, Doug Morris wrote: >Try MacX it is available from APDA. Try anonymous ftp at ftp.apple.com. > >> >> Does anyone have a recommendation for an X-windows emulator to run on a Mac >> for remotely running a Sun Sparcstation? I'd like to be able to control >> file transfer from a CT scanner to the workstation, and then from the Sun >> to my Mac, all from one place. >> Thanks. >> -Brett Simon >> _____ >> Brett Simon (bsimon@pennsy.med.jhu.edu) >> Dept. of Anesthesia and Critical Care Medicine >> Johns Hopkins Hospital >> (410) 614-1515 >> >> >> From andrewp@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu Mon Aug 30 04:35:01 1993 Received: from Arizona.edu (Merlin.Telcom.Arizona.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09948; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 13:38:54 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pirl.lpl.arizona.edu by Arizona.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2381) id <01H2CSNO5TF49I57HV@Arizona.edu>; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 11:38:37 MST Received: by pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (4.1/SMI-3.2 LPL-MCN 1.25 91/08/23) id AA01652; Mon, 30 Aug 93 11:35:01 MST Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 11:35:01 -0700 (MST) From: andrewp@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (Andrew Papanikolas) Subject: Re: X-Windows emulation To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <9308301835.AA01652@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > Does anyone have a recommendation for an X-windows emulator to run on a Mac > for remotely running a Sun Sparcstation? I'd like to be able to control > file transfer from a CT scanner to the workstation, and then from the Sun > to my Mac, all from one place. > Thanks. > -Brett Simon I am currently using Mac-X on a centris 650 to connect to the various SUN system in this building. Mac-X is an Apple product available for about $295. Remember that this is a retail price and Apple's educationa and government pricing is significantly lower. Another product is eXodous from White Pine Software. It's a little cheaper than MacX and a bit slower. I've never used it so I cannot give any more info than that. I have been using MacX for several months now and I find it to be a reliable product. It does a good job of displaying OpenWindows Geometries. Unfortunately, due to the resolution typical of a workstation screen the windows can get rather large on a 13" Mac Monitor. -Andrew Papanikolas Lunar and Planetary Lab Department of Planetary Science University of Arizona From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu Mon Aug 30 18:52:54 1993 Received: from Sdsc.Edu (sds.sdsc.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10162; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 13:54:15 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 18:52:54 GMT From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten) Message-Id: <930830185254.2020247c@sds.sdsc.edu> Subject: RE: Viewing 3D Stereo Pairs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH Re viewing stereo pairs: Print smaller frames and use a cheap viewer. Alternately, buy the expensive Wild-Heerbrug stereo viewer which accomodates full page drawings. Harvey Karten From wayne@helix.nih.gov Mon Aug 30 14:51:30 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10829; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 14:54:14 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA05422; Mon, 30 Aug 93 15:10:27 -0400 Message-Id: <9308301910.AA05422@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 14:51:30 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Quadra 840AV advantages ? >Wayne: Do your mean that NIH Image can not use the built-in frame grabber of >Quadra 840AV or Centris 660AV to capture video? If so, will you make this happensoon? I think the AVs and the NIH Image are perfect match, don't you? NIH Image cannot use the built-in frame grabber of the Quadra 840AV or Centris 660AV and there is no easy way I can make this happen soon since I don't have either of these machines and have no plans to get one. The next Mac I plan to get will be a PowerPC. I am hoping that someone will write a plug-in to access the built-in frame grabber on the AV Macs. --wayne From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Mon Aug 30 13:48:16 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12328; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:48:33 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA11492; Mon, 30 Aug 93 17:48:22 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA26741; Mon, 30 Aug 93 17:48:16 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 17:48:16 -0400 Message-Id: <9308302148.AA26741@cascade.MIT.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Viewing 3D stereo A reasonable quick'n' dirty approach requires a pair of standard overhead projectors (readily available); a blank area of wall of a slide screen; two 4x4 inch linear polarizing filters (available from Edmund Scientific in New Jersey or various other supply houses); cross-polarized glasses (available for about $0.25 each in quantity). Place the projectors next to each other and focus them on the screen. They should be precisely offset by their width, not fully overlapped. (That is, there will be a 16" gutter at the left where only the lefthand prjector illuminates the screen and a 16" gutter at the right illuminated only by the righthand projector; the area in the center will be illuminated by both.) Slide projectors work *much* better than overhead projectors, since they cause less aberration (parallax), but slides are typically 1200-2400 dpi, whereas your laser printer is probably 300-600 dpi. Align the polarizers *precisely* against the outermost lenses of each projector, using the convention of vertical polarization on the lefthand projector and horizontal polarization on the righthand projector. Try not to bend the polarizers or get fingerprints on them, and try to keep them parallel to the screen. Print your stereo pairs at two-up or four-up, and then photocopy the laser printed page onto a sheet of transparency paper. (Do *not* try to run transparency paper through your laser printer, unless you wish to shorten the life of both!) Cut the sheet in half or quarters, as appropriate. (The optics of standard overhead projectors are usually not good enough to permit full pages to be used.) Don the specs. Instant stereopsis! And many people can view simultaneously. Color can also be used, but not from a B&W laser printer. Many people prefer a greater-than-real stereo defect angle on such a large screen, which exaggerates the z-hat dimension. - David Salzman, Ph.D. From prevelig@sage.mit.edu Mon Aug 30 14:03:09 1993 Received: from SAGE.MIT.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12489; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 17:02:45 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by sage.mit.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA09739; Mon, 30 Aug 93 18:03:09 -0400 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 18:03:09 -0400 Message-Id: <9308302203.AA09739@sage.mit.edu> From: "Peter Prevelige" Reply-To: "Peter Prevelige" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: X-Windows emulation In message <9308301531.AA10048@pennsy.med.jhu.edu> writes: > Does anyone have a recommendation for an X-windows emulator to run on a Mac > for remotely running a Sun Sparcstation? I have used eXodus from White Pine software sucessfully. It can run on most mac configurations but benefits from lots of memory. If you need further info, please ask. From @ANLVM.CTD.ANL.GOV:ZALUZEC@ANLEMC.BITNET Mon Aug 30 20:48:14 1993 Received: from anlvm.ctd.anl.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA14164; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 20:48:14 -0500 Return-Path: <@ANLVM.CTD.ANL.GOV:ZALUZEC@ANLEMC.BITNET> Message-Id: <199308310148.AA14164@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from ANLVM by ANLVM.CTD.ANL.GOV (IBM VM SMTP R1.2.2ANL-MX) with BSMTP id 1812; Mon, 30 Aug 93 20:48:57 CDT Received: from ANLEMC.BITNET (ZALUZEC) by ANLVM (Mailer R2.07B) with BSMTP id 2173; Mon, 30 Aug 93 20:48:56 CDT Date: 30-AUG-1993 20:44:47.48 From: "Nestor J. Zaluzec (708)-252-5075, -4964" To: nih-image@soils.umn.EDU Subject: Stereo Pairs X-Anje-To: GATEWAY::"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Anje-Cc: ZALUZEC You can use Image directly to view stereo pairs. Just Play the "left/right" images as a movie. You may have to adjust the frame rate to get a pleasing effect. Saves everyone the hassle of walking around cross-eyed. Nestor J. Zaluzec ANL EM Center From scudder@cpac.washington.edu Mon Aug 30 12:20:20 1993 Received: from bailey.cpac.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA14525; Mon, 30 Aug 1993 21:23:05 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by bailey.cpac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.4 ) id AA06288; Mon, 30 Aug 93 19:22:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 19:20:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Kurt Scudder Subject: Re: Stereo Pairs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: <199308310148.AA14164@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 30 Aug 1993, Nestor J. Zaluzec (708)-252-5075, -4964 wrote: > > You can use Image directly to view stereo pairs. Just > Play the "left/right" images as a movie. You may have to adjust > the frame rate to get a pleasing effect. Saves everyone > the hassle of walking around cross-eyed. > > Nestor J. Zaluzec > ANL EM Center > > Could someone post some stereo pairs onto zippy (or someplace) so we could give this a try? Thanks, Kurt Scudder Dept. of Chemistry University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195 scudder@u.washington.edu From rivero@sol.cie.unizar.es Tue Aug 31 11:31:47 1993 Received: from relay.rediris.es by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17051; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 03:29:21 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from sol.cie.unizar.es (sol.unizar.es) by relay.rediris.es (PMDF V4.2-11 #4193) id <01H2E4KCE8TS8WZHJW@relay.rediris.es>; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:30:20 GMT+2 Received: by sol.cie.unizar.es (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00767; Tue, 31 Aug 93 10:31:47 +0100 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:31:47 +0100 From: rivero@sol.cie.unizar.es (Alejandro Rivero) Subject: Re: Viewing 3D stereo To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <9308310931.AA00767@sol.cie.unizar.es> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I agree with the setup proposed by David. We had one very similar in a optics exercise, with slides. (BTW: It is easy to take a 3d stereo slide, simply take one, move trhe tripode a little left, and take the next, dont buy an stereo camera!). Only point is the screen. It must be a higly reflective one, as difused light will lost polarization. If this happen, you could anyway try the old blue & red scheme... which btw could be the solution if you dont get a polarizer big enough to mount over the lens. Do anyone knows of other programs to do 3D stereograms, apart of image? By example, some Mathematica programs? -Alejandro From bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Sat Aug 31 05:42:10 1993 Received: from enh.nist.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19316; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 08:42:59 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.6.98.4] (dsb-mac.nist.gov) by ENH.NIST.GOV (PMDF #2824 ) id <01H2E2VLCL9S002NJO@ENH.NIST.GOV>; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:42:10 EDT Date: 31 Aug 1993 09:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ENH.NIST.GOV From: bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Re: FDA regulations To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2E2VLRBQQ002NJO@ENH.NIST.GOV> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Has anybody out there use NIH-Image for morphometric analysis >of histopathologic samples in a toxicology/Pathology department >in a FDA-regulated industry? > >I am in the process of writting a validation manuscript for image here >at ROCHE and there are several issues that are difficult to deal with... > No, I don't qualify, but I am interested in morphometric analysis of particles. We do materials characterization here. I would be happy to discuss various issues with you, though. Also I've developed a public domain program called MacLispix that is flexible and is a useful adjunct to NIH Image when special purpose measurements are needed. --Dave ------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Bright bright@enh.nist.gov Microanalysis Research Group Chem. A113 National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST, formerly NBS) Gaithersburg, MD 20899-0001 USA 301-975-3911 From jans0015@gold.tc.umn.edu Tue Aug 31 03:53:05 1993 Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu (gold2.tc.umn.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19512; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 08:53:15 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308311353.AA19512@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from [134.84.222.117] by gold.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8357bfa04082; Tue, 31 Aug 93 08:53:03 -0500 From: "Elizabeth M. Jansen" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: PC to MAC (again) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 08:53:05 -0500 THanks to all who responded to my posting about going from the PC to the MAC. However, I need to clarify something. The Tiff goes to from the PC to the Mac fine. This is shown by viewing the TIFF in Adobe Photoshop. Therefore I am not losing resolution in the transfer. The problem is that the IMAGE software is not showing the resolution and clarity that I expect based on what the image looked like in the PC. Comments, suggestions? From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Tue Aug 31 08:58:48 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19567; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 08:58:48 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308311358.AA19567@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 31 Aug 1993 09:59:29 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: MacLispix To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ MacLispix Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Also I've developed a public domain program called MacLispix that is flexible and is a useful adjunct to NIH Image when special purpose measurements are needed. With reference to this David, are you going to make MacLispix available on an ftp server a la NIH-Image? Could it be put on zippy in the contrib dir or similar? I have the MacLispix software but it turns out I dont have any documentation (didnt fit on the floppy at MSA!). Wayne, If David wanted to do this could he make his softweare avaiable on zippy? Thanks. From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Tue Aug 31 06:07:15 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19757; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:07:28 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA05105; Tue, 31 Aug 93 10:07:15 -0400 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 10:07:15 -0400 Message-Id: <9308311407.AA05105@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: PC to MAC (again) > The problem is that the IMAGE software is not showing the resolution >and clarity that I expect based on what the image looked like in the PC. Try enhance contrast or histogram equalization Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu Tue Aug 31 04:08:00 1993 Received: from vms2.macc.wisc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19812; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:10:35 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from VMSmail by vms2.macc.wisc.edu; Tue, 31 Aug 93 09:08 CDT Message-Id: <23083109084267@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 09:08 CDT From: Charles Thomas Subject: Re: Stereo Pairs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu",CHARLEST >You can use Image directly to view stereo pairs. Just Play the "left/right" >images as a movie. You may have to adjust the frame rate to get a pleasing >effect. Saves everyone the hassle of walking around cross-eyed. A few comments: I don't see how this approach would work unless one had a set of shuttered viewers which would keep the left eye from seeing the right eye image when it was displayed. If both eyes see the movie of both images, no stereo should be perceived. I believe that there are LCD shuttering viewers which allow just this sort of thing, however. Secondly, I've learned that there are sort of two kinds of people when it comes to stereo viewing... those that can LEARN to see stereo (hold the images at arm's length, cross the eyes and look for the image between the two fuzzy images), and those who have problems seeing stereo anyway. A person I worked with here couldn't see stereo and it turned out that he had a "lazy eye", one of his eyes wasn't really being used all the time and he rarely saw stereo anyway. I'd advise your PI to keep at it if stereo imaging is going to be a big part of his/her research. Lastly, as to the "left/right" flickering Image movie... this works pretty well to preview 16-bit merged images. That is to say, if you load (for example) a rhodamine-labelled image into image and apply a LUT that runs from black to bright red, then load a fluorescein-labelled image into image and apply a LUT that runs from black to bright green, then make a stack of the two images and animate it (COMMAND =) with the frame rate set on high (9), you can turn out the lights and see what to expect from a 16-bit merged image. We used this method to filter out the best of our images and then send those two off to Photoshop to be printed by a slide-maker as a merged image. From cammer@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu Tue Aug 31 06:26:38 1993 Received: from alsys1.aecom.yu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20058; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:33:48 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by alsys1.aecom.yu.edu id AA17773 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for nih-image@soils.umn.edu); Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:33:36 -0400 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:26:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Cammer Subject: Re: Viewing 3D Stereo Pairs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: <9308301652.AA31242@itsa.ucsf.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A lab here has exactly what you are looking for. The glasses are a cardboard box with a knob on top to adjust mirrors for each eye. One can look at tiny stereo pairs in a journal, pairs on a monitor, or billboard size pairs (although, I must admit, I have never in fact seen this type of ad campaign-- "Cross Your Eyes-- See Deep"-- I guess this would pose a liability problem along roadways). But I have no idea how to find a source for more glasses. Nobody in the lab knows where they came from. They say "nu 3D vu" on them. If you find a source for purchasing more of these, PLEASE let me know. Michael cammer@aecom.yu.edu From cammer@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu Tue Aug 31 06:43:18 1993 Received: from alsys1.aecom.yu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20260; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:47:34 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by alsys1.aecom.yu.edu id AA18126 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for nih-image@soils.umn.edu); Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:47:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:43:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Cammer Subject: Re: Stereo Pairs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: Michael Cammer In-Reply-To: <23083109084267@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >You can use Image directly to view stereo pairs. Just Play the "left/right" > >images as a movie. You may have to adjust the frame rate to get a pleasing > >effect. Saves everyone the hassle of walking around cross-eyed. > I don't see how this approach would work unless one had a set of shuttered > viewers which would keep the left eye from seeing the right eye image when it > was displayed. If both eyes see the movie of both images, no stereo should be > perceived. I believe that there are LCD shuttering viewers which allow just > this sort of thing, however. The Silicon Graphics workstations can be purchased with the shutter glasses, and stereo animations look great. But the problem remains that some people just cannot see stereo. Playing stereo pairs as a movie can approximate the sensation of stereo. I found this with a friend who is dyslexic and cannot perceive depth. Playing the two images as a movie or, better, showing a complete animation, opened up the illusion of depth for her. -Michael From skim@signal.poly.edu Tue Aug 31 06:52:00 1993 Received: from signal.poly.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20451; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:56:25 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by signal.poly.edu (5.65/1.34) id AA10883; Tue, 31 Aug 93 10:52:00 -0400 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 10:52:00 -0400 From: skim@signal.poly.edu (Seung Pil Kim) Message-Id: <9308311452.AA10883@signal.poly.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: compression in NIH-Image I'm not a current user of NIH-Image. Could anyone inform me about the compression facilities in NIH-Image; efficiencies, problems, and desirable features, etc. ? Thanks. Seung-pil From wayne@helix.nih.gov Tue Aug 31 09:55:07 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20495; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:57:52 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA11491; Tue, 31 Aug 93 10:14:07 -0400 Message-Id: <9308311414.AA11491@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:55:07 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: major and minor axes >How does NIH-Image compute major and minor axes? Does it curve fit to an >ellipse? Does it compute the major axis first and then find the longest >orthogonal chord length? or does it compute the minor axis length as the >orthogonal chord length at the midpoint of the major axis? Major and Minor are the major and minor axis of the best fit ellipse. There is a macro('Draw Fitted Ellipse in White') in Measurement Macros that will show you what the best fit ellipse looks like. --wayne From MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Tue Aug 31 05:10:54 1993 Received: from orange.cc.utexas.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20721; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:17:35 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from utxvms.cc.utexas.edu by utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (PMDF V4.2-12 #4544) id <01H2E3UN5CJK8WW75B@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:10:54 CDT Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:10:54 -0500 (CDT) From: MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: CCD Camera and frame grabbe To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2E3UN7HPE8WW75B@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have CORECO in my files at FAX # 514-333-1388. Good luck. Peter J. Joyce Office Phone (512) 471-5724 email= Received: from maca.sarnoff.com by nova (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA06743; Tue, 31 Aug 93 11:33:46 EDT Message-Id: <9308311533.AA06743@nova> Date: 31 Aug 1993 10:57:20 U From: "Norm Hurst" Subject: Re: Viewing 3D stereo To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu RE>Viewing 3D stereo Hey, David Salzman, Ph.D.: Very cool technique! I'll have to try it! But one thing: I thought the convention of most 3-D specs was +45 and -45, instead of 90 and 0, so if you put them on backwards it still works. Not true? -Norm Hurst From bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Sat Aug 31 07:40:56 1993 Received: from enh.nist.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21201; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:41:53 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.6.98.4] (dsb-mac.nist.gov) by ENH.NIST.GOV (PMDF #2824 ) id <01H2E70U6A0G002KQ6@ENH.NIST.GOV>; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 11:40:56 EDT Date: 31 Aug 1993 11:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ENH.NIST.GOV From: bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: RE: Stereo Pairs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2E70UKQUQ002KQ6@ENH.NIST.GOV> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >>You can use Image directly to view stereo pairs. Just Play the "left/right" >>images as a movie. You may have to adjust the frame rate to get a pleasing >>effect. Saves everyone the hassle of walking around cross-eyed. > >A few comments: > >I don't see how this approach would work unless one had a set of shuttered >viewers which would keep the left eye from seeing the right eye image when it >was displayed. If both eyes see the movie of both images, no stereo should be >perceived. {text ommitted} What happens with this mode is that the object appears rocked back and forth and depth becomes amazingly clear (even if viewed with one eye - we percieve depth in various ways). There are movies for image that show this. Graphics programs such as MacSpin make use of this effect. >Lastly, as to the "left/right" flickering Image movie... this works pretty well >to preview 16-bit merged images. That is to say, if you load (for example) a >rhodamine-labelled image into image and apply a LUT that runs from black to >bright red, then load a fluorescein-labelled image into image and apply a LUT >that runs from black to bright green, then make a stack of the two images and >animate it (COMMAND =) with the frame rate set on high (9), you can turn out >the >lights and see what to expect from a 16-bit merged image. We used this method >to filter out the best of our images and then send those two off to Photoshop >to >be printed by a slide-maker as a merged image. This is a handy tip. Thanks. --Dave ------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Bright bright@enh.nist.gov Microanalysis Research Group Chem. A113 National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST, formerly NBS) Gaithersburg, MD 20899-0001 USA 301-975-3911 From pdevries@macc.wisc.edu Tue Aug 31 04:45:28 1993 Received: from vms2.macc.wisc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21208; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:42:24 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from rubble.bocklabs.wisc.edu by vms2.macc.wisc.edu; Tue, 31 Aug 93 10:40 CDT Message-Id: <23083110402209@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:45:28 -0600 From: (Pete DeVries) Subject: Re: PC to MAC (again) To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Sender: pdevries@vms2.macc.wisc.edu > >THanks to all who responded to my posting about going from the PC to the MAC. >However, I need to clarify something. > >The Tiff goes to from the PC to the Mac fine. This is shown by viewing the >TIFF in Adobe Photoshop. Therefore I am not losing resolution in the >transfer. The problem is that the IMAGE software is not showing the resolution >and clarity that I expect based on what the image looked like in the PC. > If I understand this correctly, the images look fine in PhotoShop but not in NIH Image? If this is the case, could the problem be related to the fact that PhotoShop is a 24-bit color program and NIH Image is a 8-bit gray scale program? Are your captured files 8-bit or 24-bit? What do you have the monitors control panel set to? Does your PC program display the image on an interlaced monitor or a non-interlaced monitor? We have a PC setup that displays on an interlaced monitor, while the Mac has a non-interlaced monitor. The zaggies from a NTSC image are more visible on a non-interlaced monitor. -Pete ------------------------------------------------ Pete DeVries Information Processing Consultant University of Wisconsin - Madison Laboratory of Molecular Biology (608) 262-3403 Integrated Microscopy Resource (608) 263-6288 Email: pdevries@macc.wisc.edu FAX (608) 262-4570 ------------------------------------------------- From wayne@helix.nih.gov Tue Aug 31 10:53:06 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21427; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:55:51 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA11629; Tue, 31 Aug 93 11:12:07 -0400 Message-Id: <9308311512.AA11629@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 10:53:06 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: RasterOps Plug-ins >What is the present level of compatibility of Image with the plug-ins for >current RasterOps 24STV board plug-ins? If they still aren't working, is >there a word on when they will? The current version(1.5) of the RasterOps Video Capture plug-in consistently crashes when you try to capture from the 24STV card using either NIH Image or Micro Frontier's Enhance program. An engineer at RasterOps is supposed to be looking into the program. I will post a message if and when the problem gets fixed. --wayne From casanova%emg2@emgmhs.mcg.edu Tue Aug 31 07:26:00 1993 Received: from emgmhs.mcg.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21812; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 11:27:03 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by emgmhs.mcg.edu from NetWare MHS, SMF-71 via XGATE 2.12 MHS to SMTP Gateway (XSMTP Module) Message-Id: <6243832C01591B76@emgmhs.mcg.edu> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 12:26:00 EST From: Manuel Casanova To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: wand & macros Cc: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Return-Receipt-To: X-Mailer: XGATE 2.12 MHS/SMTP Gateway I would like to segment the entire brain from its surrounding tissues by selecting (by wand) the density sliced brain and then performing a (clear-outside). This is easy to do semi-automatically, but I would like to perform this operation automatically upon a stack of serial slices. Although I'm using Image 1.51, there seems to be no command in the macro language which allows the wand to be "clicked" at a given coordinate. Does anyone know of a way to accomplish this? Thanks for any consideration, Nathan Nathan M. DeVaughn Neuropathology/Neuroimaging Research The Medical College of Georgia Downtown VA Medical Center 116A Psychiatry Service Augusta, Georgia 30901 voice=706.733.0188x2641 fax=706.823.3970 mail=casanova@emgmhs.mcg.edu From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Tue Aug 31 12:15:10 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22338; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 12:15:10 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199308311715.AA22338@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 31 Aug 1993 13:04:06 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Re: Stereo Pairs To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ RE>>Stereo Pairs Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Nestor's approach works well, we made stereo images on David Scharf's SEM in LA last month, no eye crossing needed. If you swap the images fast enough the eyes (actually brain!) are fooled and you see stereo. -------------------------------------- Date: 8/31/93 10:39 To: John Mansfield From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu >You can use Image directly to view stereo pairs. Just Play the "left/right" >images as a movie. You may have to adjust the frame rate to get a pleasing >effect. Saves everyone the hassle of walking around cross-eyed. A few comments: I don't see how this approach would work unless one had a set of shuttered viewers which would keep the left eye from seeing the right eye image when it was displayed. If both eyes see the movie of both images, no stereo should be perceived. I believe that there are LCD shuttering viewers which allow just this sort of thing, however. Secondly, I've learned that there are sort of two kinds of people when it comes to stereo viewing... those that can LEARN to see stereo (hold the images at arm's length, cross the eyes and look for the image between the two fuzzy images), and those who have problems seeing stereo anyway. A person I worked with here couldn't see stereo and it turned out that he had a "lazy eye", one of his eyes wasn't really being used all the time and he rarely saw stereo anyway. I'd advise your PI to keep at it if stereo imaging is going to be a big part of his/her research. Lastly, as to the "left/right" flickering Image movie... this works pretty well to preview 16-bit merged images. That is to say, if you load (for example) a rhodamine-labelled image into image and apply a LUT that runs from black to bright red, then load a fluorescein-labelled image into image and apply a LUT that runs from black to bright green, then make a stack of the two images and animate it (COMMAND =) with the frame rate set on high (9), you can turn out the lights and see what to expect from a 16-bit merged image. We used this method to filter out the best of our images and then send those two off to Photoshop to be printed by a slide-maker as a merged image. ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mse.engin.umich.edu with SMTP;31 Aug 1993 10:38:59 U Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c835fda008319; Tue, 31 Aug 93 09:27:39 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20020; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:27:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 09:27:17 -0500 Message-Id: <23083109084267@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Charles Thomas To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Stereo Pairs From chandler@lamar.ColoState.EDU Tue Aug 31 07:24:09 1993 Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23556; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 14:24:23 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CHANDLER.VETMED.ColoState.EDU by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA46828; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 13:24:09 -0600 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 13:24:09 -0600 Message-Id: <9308311924.AA46828@lamar.ColoState.EDU> To: From: chandler@lamar.ColoState.EDU (John Chandler) Subject: Re: Viewing 3D Stereo Pairs >A lab here has exactly what you are looking for. The glasses are a >cardboard box with a knob on top to adjust mirrors for each eye. One can >look at tiny stereo pairs in a journal, pairs on a monitor, or billboard >size pairs (although, I must admit, I have never in fact seen this type of >ad campaign-- "Cross Your Eyes-- See Deep"-- I guess this would pose a >liability problem along roadways). >But I have no idea how to find a source for more glasses. Nobody in the >lab knows where they came from. They say "nu 3D vu" on them. If you find >a source for purchasing more of these, PLEASE let me know. >Michael cammer@aecom.yu.edu Most of the electron microscopy supply houses have mirror stereo viewers for about $400-500. These are metal frames with prisms and mirrors set at a 45 deg angle for looking at 8X10's side by side. Field of view is about 4X5". Some of the companies are: Ted Pella, Inc. Cat. No. 760 1-800-237-3526 for orders/catalogs Ladd Res. Ind. Cat. No. 11-32125 1-800-451-3406 SPI Supplies Cat. No. 02221-AB 1-800-242-4774 John chandler@lamar.ColoState.EDU Fort Collins, CO From ro23+@andrew.cmu.edu Tue Aug 31 11:41:28 1993 Received: from PO3.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23749; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 14:43:52 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (postman@localhost) by po3.andrew.cmu.edu (8.5/8.5) id PAA23013; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:43:36 -0400 Received: via switchmail; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs8.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pcs8.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:41:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mms.4.170.Aug.16.1993.11.29.44.sun4c.411.MacMail.5.2.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.pcs8.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.pcs8.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:41:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:41:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Orr To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: 3D glasses Cc: Someone asked recently about sources for 3D glasses. I was recently at Disney-MGM Studios in Orlando, Florida where they show a 3D Muppet movie (rather entertaining, actually!). 3D polarized glasses were distributed to all patrons before the show and were collected afterword. The glasses were of fairly cheap construction I'm sure (lavender plastic frames, rather thin polarizers) but they worked fine. This may be a dead end but Disney might be willing to tell you where they get the glasses. Good luck. ----------------------------------------------------------- Robert Orr Neuroimaging Project Coordinator Laboratory for Clinical Cognitive Neuroscience Carnegie Mellon University & University of Pittsburgh Internet: rjo@cmu.edu, rjo@aip.org Phone: (412)268-3795, (412)268-2332 FAX: (412)268-5060 ----------------------------------------------------------- From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Tue Aug 31 11:48:17 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23819; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 14:48:40 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H2EF40IFIU000Q7D@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:48:17 EDT Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:48:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: Re: wand & macros To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2EF40IFIW000Q7D@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Use Image 1.44Markup on zippy.nimh.nih.gov in /pub/nih-image/contrib. Here is a sample macro that used the autooutline macro command which I put into that version: procedure putLengths; var aoy: integer; v, n, l, a: integer; begin IncludeInteriorHoles(false); WandAutoMeasure(false); SelectPic(MarkupPicNumber('mark')); KillRoi; ChangeValues(255, 255, 254); ResetCounter; measure; for v := 1 to 6 do begin TextPut(txb, txo, ' ', histogram[v]); rUser1[v + 20] := histogram[v]; end; for v := 1 to 6 do begin n := 0; l := 0; if rUser1[v + 20] <> 0 then begin ChangeValues(v, v, 255); aoy := 0; SetThreshold(255); while AutoOutline(aoy) do begin ChangeValues(255, 255, v); SetCounter(v - 1); Measure; l := l + rLength[v]; n := n + 1; SetThreshold(255); end; SetThreshold(-1); end; rLength[v] := l; rUser1[v] := n; end; KillRoi; SetThreshold(-1); for v := 1 to 6 do begin TextPut(txb, txo, ' ', rLength[v] * 500); end; for v := 1 to 6 do begin TextPut(txb, txo, ' ', rUser1[v]); end; end; This macro found all regions marked with one of the 6 "extra" colors (pixel values 1 to 6), selected all contiguous pixels using the wand tool macro, and measured it. It then erased that group and looked for another, and added the results up for noncontiguous pixels. From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Tue Aug 31 11:55:30 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23986; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 14:55:55 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H2EFPI174S000Q7D@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:55:30 EDT Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 15:55:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: Four times faster reduce noise To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2EFPI174U000Q7D@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To make reduce noise run about 4x faster, replace findMedian with this inline code: (assembly language comments will be available later, this is tested). function findMedian (var a: sortArray): integer; {finds the 5th largest of 9 values} inline $205F, $48E7, $1F00, $4C98, $00FF, $B041, $6502, $C340,{} $B443, $6502, $C742, $B243, $6504, $C540, $C741, $B845,{} $6502, $CB44, $BC47, $6502, $CF46, $BA47, $6504, $CD44,{} $CF45, $B245, $6508, $CF43, $CD42, $CB41, $C940, $3E10,{} $BC47, $6502, $CF46, $BA47, $6504, $CD44, $CF45, $B245,{} $6508, $CF43, $CD42, $CB41, $C940, $B246, $6534, $B242,{} $6514, $B244, $6504, $3001, $6062, $B644, $6504, $3004,{} $605A, $3003, $6056, $B444, $650C, $B445, $6504, $3005,{} $604A, $3002, $6046, $B644, $6504, $3004, $603E, $3003,{} $603A, $B645, $6504, $C942, $CB43, $B846, $651C, $B644,{} $650C, $B444, $6504, $3002, $6022, $3004, $601E, $B646,{} $6504, $3003, $6016, $3006, $6012, $B646, $6508, $B446,{} $65F4, $3002, $6006, $B644, $65E0, $3003, $4CDF, $00F8,{} $3E80; This goes into the interface section of Utilities.p, or delete findMedian there and put it into Functions.p before the call. See Knuth vol 3 section 5.3.3 exercise 11 and answer to exercise 10 (sic). It was a little harder than it looked, "details left to the reader..." This code will also be used for my 16 bit median filter... From MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Tue Aug 31 11:09:36 1993 Received: from orange.cc.utexas.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA25198; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 16:10:35 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from utxvms.cc.utexas.edu by utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (PMDF V4.2-12 #4544) id <01H2EGEVKSLS8WW9KP@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 16:09:36 CDT Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 16:09:36 -0500 (CDT) From: MEZY301@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: major and minor axes To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2EGEVLV6Q8WW9KP@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Peter J. Joyce Office Phone (512) 471-5724 email= Message-Id: <199308312124.AA25415@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from rash.med.umn.edu by maroon.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c83c18c027098; Tue, 31 Aug 93 16:24:31 -0500 From: "Mike Herron" Reply-To: "Mike Herron" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: Stereo Pairs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 93 16:24:33 -0500 > I don't see how this approach would work unless one had a set of shuttered > viewers which would keep the left eye from seeing the right eye image when it > was displayed. If both eyes see the movie of both images, no stereo should > be > perceived. I believe that there are LCD shuttering viewers which allow just > this sort of thing, however. I will butt in here for moral support :^) I have never seen the flickering left/right system demonstrated...but I do recall reading a few years ago that some TV people were patenting just such a set up for 3d TV. I do not understand how it would work either...but I get the impression that 3d perception is a murky art. ______________________________________________ / Mike Herron, Uof MN, Dept. of Deramatology / / herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu / / 625-8935 Box 124 UMHC, Mpls MN 55455 / ______________________________________________ From mt1ntg@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au Wed Sep 1 20:39:16 1993 Received: from fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28326; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 19:39:44 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309010039.AA28326@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from [160.64.14.216] by fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au with SMTP; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 10:47:11 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 10:39:16 +1000 To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu From: Noel Subject: 3D Perception On this much discussed topic here is my two bob's worth. To get a stereo pair to fuse may take 30 seconds of intense looking. If you are tired it may take even longer. The joy of achieving stereopsis is worth the effort. Regular users of binocular microscopes (stereo ones) and binoculars (telescopes) often do it more easily, especially if they are using the stereo effect as a data input. Of course map makers use it (or did) until computers took over and now do it for them, I think. This is a "well known fact", and I can attest to the fact that it can take a long time. One of my colleagues here could not see stereo at all, but by dint of much effort and practice (some months I think), he now uses the technique regularly. There are two ways of taking stereo-pairs. 1 Tilt the specimen each side of flat by some suitable angle, say +-3 to 6 degrees, depending on how much relief there is and how much you want to have sticking up. If you overdo it you will not be able to fuse the stereo pairs. 2. Take one picture and move the camera/ specimen side-ways so that the area you want in stereo is in both images. This works because the angle of view changes across the field of view in most optical and electron optical instruments. These instruments do not generally use parallel projection, the image forming rays form a perspective cone. The tricks and traps and the rest are well understood by map makers and surveyors. The generation of a contour map from stereo pairs must take into account the perspective properties of the imaging system. By the way, there is a shareware program on the mac which displays and generates Random Dot Stereograms, which will bend your mind when you first see them. These are the two pairs of a stereo pair somehow chopped up into two sets of dots which are displayed in one picture. Your marvellous visual system is then able to untangle this, picking out the left and right images and providing the 3D image. It works. I suggest that someone tries to get a module going in image to generate these from stereo pairs. The problem will be to obtain the Z (height ) dimension, the program which does this needs the X-Y-Z coordinates. regards Noel T Goldsmith DSTO Aeronautical Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Port Melbourne Vic 3207 Australia From mt1ntg@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au Wed Sep 1 21:43:38 1993 Received: from fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28814; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 20:44:13 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309010144.AA28814@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from [160.64.14.216] by fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au with SMTP; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 11:51:32 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 11:43:38 +1000 To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu From: Noel Subject: Depth in images 1. Has anyone done any work with Image which allows the generation of depth coordinates from stereo pairs, or from a stack of images at different depths? And if they do they probably need to think about the next question. 2. Can anyone direct me to reference which has a correct derivation for the depth of focus of a high numerical aperture microscope objective (say 0.75 to 1.4 NA). The much quoted work by Born and Wolf ("Principles of Optics") pp434 -432 is not really a derivation for a high numerical aperture lens. The first thing they do is invoke the paraxial approximation for small angles ( angles whose sin = the angle in radians), which is fine for an angle of a few degrees. The objectives I am working with have a cone of light going in of up to about 170 degrees, not small at all. If you do a few sums you get very small depths of focus using Born and Wolf, and if you then compare the theoretical with the actual they do not really agree. I have found another reference Conrady "Applied Optics and Optical Design" which derives a focal tolerance based on optical path length differences, based on the Rayleigh limit, and these numbers are much more like what I see. Any comments would be gratefully received. thank you Noel Noel T Goldsmith DSTO Aeronautical Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Port Melbourne Vic 3207 Australia From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Wed Sep 1 07:58:22 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03776; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 07:58:22 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309011258.AA03776@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 1 Sep 1993 08:59:26 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Re: Four times faster reduce To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ RE>Four times faster reduce no Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Wayne is this something you could add the the regular image? -------------------------------------- Date: 8/31/93 17:23 To: John Mansfield From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu To make reduce noise run about 4x faster, replace findMedian with this inline code: (assembly language comments will be available later, this is tested). function findMedian (var a: sortArray): integer; {finds the 5th largest of 9 values} inline $205F, $48E7, $1F00, $4C98, $00FF, $B041, $6502, $C340,{} $B443, $6502, $C742, $B243, $6504, $C540, $C741, $B845,{} $6502, $CB44, $BC47, $6502, $CF46, $BA47, $6504, $CD44,{} $CF45, $B245, $6508, $CF43, $CD42, $CB41, $C940, $3E10,{} $BC47, $6502, $CF46, $BA47, $6504, $CD44, $CF45, $B245,{} $6508, $CF43, $CD42, $CB41, $C940, $B246, $6534, $B242,{} $6514, $B244, $6504, $3001, $6062, $B644, $6504, $3004,{} $605A, $3003, $6056, $B444, $650C, $B445, $6504, $3005,{} $604A, $3002, $6046, $B644, $6504, $3004, $603E, $3003,{} $603A, $B645, $6504, $C942, $CB43, $B846, $651C, $B644,{} $650C, $B444, $6504, $3002, $6022, $3004, $601E, $B646,{} $6504, $3003, $6016, $3006, $6012, $B646, $6508, $B446,{} $65F4, $3002, $6006, $B644, $65E0, $3003, $4CDF, $00F8,{} $3E80; This goes into the interface section of Utilities.p, or delete findMedian there and put it into Functions.p before the call. See Knuth vol 3 section 5.3.3 exercise 11 and answer to exercise 10 (sic). It was a little harder than it looked, "details left to the reader..." This code will also be used for my 16 bit median filter... ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mse.engin.umich.edu with SMTP;31 Aug 1993 17:22:58 U Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c83adb6011998; Tue, 31 Aug 93 14:59:51 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24061; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 14:59:31 -0500 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 14:59:31 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2EFPI174U000Q7D@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: "Edward J. Huff" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Four times faster reduce noise From VRDP3ROZ@RULIMBURG.NL Tue Aug 31 14:18:00 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07030; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 13:46:23 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from HEARN.NIC.SURFNET.NL (MAILER@HEARN) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2FLNO5FQ8B122ZK@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 12:39:58 CDT Received: from RULIMBURG.NL (NJE origin VRDP3ROZ@HMARL5) by HEARN.NIC.SURFNET.NL (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 9873; Tue, 31 Aug 1993 13:20:32 +0200 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 13:18 +0100 (MET) From: VRDP3ROZ@RULIMBURG.NL Subject: Re: 3D Stereo To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Do anyone knows of other programs to do 3D stereograms, apart of image? Try 3d-dots at info-mac. Its in /info-mac/grf/util/ I did not see it myself, but it is worth a look. Hope it helps you. Nico Rozendaal, State University Limburg, Dept. of Neuropsychology, Maastricht the Netherlands. e-mail: nico.rozendaal@np.rulimburg.nl From wayne@helix.nih.gov Wed Sep 1 13:49:23 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07171; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 13:52:10 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA16173; Wed, 1 Sep 93 14:08:30 -0400 Message-Id: <9309011808.AA16173@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 13:49:23 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Four times faster reduce I have added Edward J. Huff's version of Reduce Noise to v1.52b6, which is now on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. I have included a list of bug fixes and new features. The Expression filter mentioned in item 8 is pretty slick. I will upload it to Zippy as soon as I get the author's permission. --wayne 1) A bug was fixed that could cause Image to crash when opening text files with names containing a semicolon. 2) A bug was fixed that caused plug-in filters to not work correctly with rectangular selections. 3) Images are now marked as changed when you use a plug-in filter. 4) A bug was fixed that would sometimes cause the Windows menu to become messed when one or more text windows were open. 5) The window title bar is now correctly updated after a TIFF file has been saved using a new name. 6) The Reduce Noise filter is now four times faster due to some in-line 68000 code contributed by Edward J. Huff at the NYU Chemistry Deptartment. 7) A bug was fixed that prevented filter plug-ins from remembering their settings between calls. Pass the string 'Reset' to the Filter macro routine(e.g., Filter('Reset')) to force the next filter called to use its default settings and to display its dialog box, if any. 8) A macro('Make Expression Movie' in Stacks-2) was written for generating movies using the Expression plug-in filter. Expression is a freeware program written by Jim Bumgardner(jbum@aol.com) that creates images that change over time according to a mathematical formula. Expression 3.0b or later is required for use with NIH Image. From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Wed Sep 1 15:26:09 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08193; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 15:26:09 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309012026.AA08193@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 1 Sep 1993 16:22:49 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Re: Four times faster reduc To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ RE>>Four times faster reduce Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Wow, that is what I call service! -------------------------------------- Date: 9/1/93 15:49 To: John Mansfield From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu I have added Edward J. Huff's version of Reduce Noise to v1.52b6, which is now on zippy.nimh.nih.gov. I have included a list of bug fixes and new features. The Expression filter mentioned in item 8 is pretty slick. I will upload it to Zippy as soon as I get the author's permission. --wayne 1) A bug was fixed that could cause Image to crash when opening text files with names containing a semicolon. 2) A bug was fixed that caused plug-in filters to not work correctly with rectangular selections. 3) Images are now marked as changed when you use a plug-in filter. 4) A bug was fixed that would sometimes cause the Windows menu to become messed when one or more text windows were open. 5) The window title bar is now correctly updated after a TIFF file has been saved using a new name. 6) The Reduce Noise filter is now four times faster due to some in-line 68000 code contributed by Edward J. Huff at the NYU Chemistry Deptartment. 7) A bug was fixed that prevented filter plug-ins from remembering their settings between calls. Pass the string 'Reset' to the Filter macro routine(e.g., Filter('Reset')) to force the next filter called to use its default settings and to display its dialog box, if any. 8) A macro('Make Expression Movie' in Stacks-2) was written for generating movies using the Expression plug-in filter. Expression is a freeware program written by Jim Bumgardner(jbum@aol.com) that creates images that change over time according to a mathematical formula. Expression 3.0b or later is required for use with NIH Image. ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mse.engin.umich.edu with SMTP;1 Sep 1993 15:49:34 U Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c84f056021620; Wed, 1 Sep 93 13:56:23 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07213; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 13:56:03 -0500 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 13:56:03 -0500 Message-Id: <9309011808.AA16173@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: wayne%helix.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu (Wayne Rasband) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Four times faster reduce From wayne@helix.nih.gov Wed Sep 1 16:13:46 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08762; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 16:16:33 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA16821; Wed, 1 Sep 93 16:32:53 -0400 Message-Id: <9309012032.AA16821@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 16:13:46 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: compression in NIH-Image >I'm not a current user of NIH-Image. Could anyone inform me >about the compression facilities in NIH-Image; efficiencies, >problems, and desirable features, etc. ? The only compression directly supported by NIH Image is the run length encoding scheme called PackBits used for PICT and PICS files. This works great with computer generated graphics, but is useless for scanned images. There are, however, utilities such as Stacker and TimesTwo, that do transparent LZW type compression and work with all Mac programs. Such utilities would probably to a pretty good job of compressing scanned images. Be warned, though, that some people think such utilities may be dangerous to the health of your hard disk. There are probably also plug-ins for reading and writing files using compression schemes such as JPEG. --wayne From meinel@aero.org Wed Sep 1 14:42:34 1993 Received: from aerospace.aero.org by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA14961; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 23:42:54 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from antares.aero.org by aerospace.aero.org with SMTP (5.65c/6.0.GT) id AA15397 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu; Wed, 1 Sep 1993 21:42:38 -0700 Posted-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1993 21:42:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199309020442.AA15397@aerospace.aero.org> Received: from altair.aero.org by antares.aero.org (4.1/AMS-1.0) id AA26793 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu; Wed, 1 Sep 93 21:42:37 PDT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: 1.51 selection bug? Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1993 21:42:34 -0700 From: "Edward S. Meinel" I've noticed that in Image 1.51 I can't select the bottom row or right column using the rectangle selection tool; I can only get them using 'select all'. Ed (meinel@aero.org) From owen@rsnz.govt.nz Fri Sep 3 03:51:35 1993 Received: from st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15821; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 01:35:05 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from rsnz.govt.nz by st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz id <25061-0@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz>; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 18:34:34 +1200 Received: from rsnz by rsnz.govt.nz with UUPC; Thu, 02 Sep 93 17:34:08 +1200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 15:51:35 +1200 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: owen@rsnz.govt.nz (Owen Watson) Subject: Image vs Photoshop?? Message-Id: <"st-james.c.063:02.08.93.06.34.36"@newznet.net.nz> Forgive a post that's probably a FAQ from a newbie. Most of my work is production of scientific journals on the perennial tight budget. I scan a few things with my old Apple Scanner, but before too long hope to get a scanner that can produce acceptable output for publication (800 dpi line and ?? photos) on a Linotron. Is it worth climbing the learning curve with Image or are its limitations (max image size etc) too great for the sort of work I do? The obvious alternative is Photoshop. All replies gratefully received. Owen Watson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Owen Watson The Royal Society of New Zealand PO Box 598 Wellington NZ Internet owen@rsnz.govt.nz CI$ 72540,3176 or >INTERNET:owen@rsnz.govt.nz From bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il Thu Sep 2 14:41:03 1993 Received: from dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17134; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 04:32:58 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pulsar.weizmann.ac.il by dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il via SMTP (920110.SGI/911001.SGI) for nih-image@soils.umn.edu id AA11551; Thu, 2 Sep 93 12:10:10 +0200 Message-Id: <9309021010.AA11551@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 12:41:03 +0200 To: From: bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il (David L. Hirschberg) Subject: Quadra 840av framegrabber I saw this thread and I have a related question! Assuming that one will eventaully be able to capture images using NIH-Image with the 840av, how does the frame grabber in the new Quadra compare with other cards like the Scion card? If they are identical then it seems it will be muich cheaper to buy an 840av. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David L. Hirschberg bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il Department of Neurobiology (972) (0)834-2127 (0)834-2412 work Weizmann Institute of Science (972) 847-4805 home Rehovot 76100 Israel (972) 834-4131 fax From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu Thu Sep 2 12:30:57 1993 Received: from Sdsc.Edu (m5.sdsc.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18617; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 07:31:34 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 12:30:57 GMT From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten) Message-Id: <930902123057.2040095d@m5.sdsc.edu> Subject: RE: 3D Perception To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH >Goldsmith writes: > By the way, there is a shareware program on the mac which displays and generates Random Dot Stereograms, which will bend your mind when you first see them. < Where is that posted? What is the name of the program? We have had excellent results generating stereo pairs of confocal images, using NIH-Image. Starting with a Z-series of sections imported into Image (using Wayne's excellent macros for this), I then use the Projections function to generate several images, starting about minus 12 degrees, to about plus 12 degrees. Play around with the number of increments with each z-series - I often use 3 or 6 degree increments. A 6 degree increment will give 5 images in a stack (play with brightest point and nearest neighbor projections to see what gives the best images). Now convert the stack to individual windows and lay across the screen in a nice even sequence. For those of you who can manage to fuse images without need of special viewers, you will now see a row of stereo pairs, and can even move your eyes (and/or head) from one pair to the next. I'm one of those people who never could previously see stereo unless I had a viewer. Using this method, I quickly mastered the "art of fusion." It works best if you do this on smal images about 120x120 pixels as you start doing this. I suggest using a z-series with a prominent object visible in both members of a stereo pair. It will help your fixation. Harvey J. Karten, M.D. Dept. Neurosciences UCSD 0608 La Jolla, CA 92093 Phone (619)-534-4938 FAX (619)-534-6602 E-Mail KARTENH@SDSC.EDU From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Thu Sep 2 04:39:12 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18770; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 07:39:31 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA14352; Thu, 2 Sep 93 08:39:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 08:39:12 -0400 Message-Id: <9309021239.AA14352@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabber >Assuming that one will eventaully be able to capture images using NIH-Image >with the 840av, how does the frame grabber in the new Quadra compare with >other cards like the Scion card? If they are identical then it seems it >will be muich cheaper to buy an 840av. You might ask, how does one rate a framegrabber? Most people interested in NIH Image are the scientific community, with a lot of other users too of course. Many of the applications turn out to be of the grayscale type. In general, a scientific application would imply high integrity of the captured data (i.e. high signal to noise). Nearly all of the experiments I have worked with require an external trigger. Additionally, some scientific applications involve time sensitive experiments and need short bursts of real time image capture. And of course there are many who want color for various reasons. I have not heard which a/d is used in the AV macs for converting the signal to digital. I don't know how they handle the chrominance (color) signal. I can almost guarantee the av macs do not have an external trigger. I don't even know if the av macs handle a full frame of video, they may subsample. These are the questions, along with some others I am sure, that must get answered before evaluating the av for science. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov Thu Sep 2 05:14:55 1993 Received: from jupiter.ESD.ORNL.GOV by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19243; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 08:15:43 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from esdupx.esd.ornl.gov by jupiter.esd.ornl.gov (5.65/1.34) id AA02382; Thu, 2 Sep 93 09:15:25 -0400 From: "Rupert Wimmer" Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 09:14:55 EDT Message-Id: <198.rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov_POPMail/PC_3.2.2> Reply-To: X-Popmail-Charset: English To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabber On Thu, 2 Sep 1993 04:39:41 -0500, David L. Hirschberg wrote: >I saw this thread and I have a related question! > >Assuming that one will eventaully be able to capture images using NIH-Image >with the 840av, how does the frame grabber in the new Quadra compare with >other cards like the Scion card? If they are identical then it seems it >will be muich cheaper to buy an 840av. Wayne posted this helpful message few days ago: NIH Image cannot use the built-in frame grabber of the Quadra 840AV or Centris 660AV and there is no easy way I can make this happen soon since I don't have either of these machines and have no plans to get one. The next Mac I plan to get will be a PowerPC. I am hoping that someone will write a plug-in to access the built-in frame grabber on the AV Macs. --wayne *------------------------------------------------------------------* | Rupert Wimmer Environmental Science Division | | Phone: (615)574-7358 Oak Ridge National Laboratory | | Fax: (615)576-9939 P.O. Box 2008, Bldg. 1506 | | rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov Oak Ridge, Tennessee 37831-6034 | *------------------------------------------------------------------* From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Thu Sep 2 08:22:48 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19413; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 08:22:48 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309021322.AA19413@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 2 Sep 1993 09:22:36 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabb To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ RE>>Quadra 840av framegrabbe Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Mark Vivino, NIH/DCRT, mvivino@helix.nih.gov writes: > I have not heard which a/d is used in the AV macs for converting the > signal to digital. The DSP chip is used somehow, I am not familiar with the details. > >I don't know how they handle the chrominance (color) signal. >I can almost guarantee the av macs do not have an external trigger. I don't > even know if the av macs handle a full frame of video, they may > subsample. These are the questions, along with some others I am sure, > that must get answered before evaluating the av for science. I dont know the answers to most of these questions either. I am trying to get an 840av to evaluate and I'll post a summary when I have had chance to play with it. OK? John Mansfield. From wayne@helix.nih.gov Thu Sep 2 08:36:02 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19663; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 08:38:51 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA17998; Thu, 2 Sep 93 08:55:13 -0400 Message-Id: <9309021255.AA17998@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 08:36:02 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: 1.51 selection bug? >I've noticed that in Image 1.51 I can't select the bottom row or right >column using the rectangle selection tool; I can only get them using >'select all'. This will be fixed in v1.52. You can also include the right or bottom rows by dragging the selection right and down. --wayne From HUFF@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Thu Sep 2 05:53:15 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19903; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 08:53:46 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H2GVGXOO9Y000ZA5@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 09:53:15 EDT Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1993 09:53:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward J. Huff" Subject: How to display the folder Icons which come with Image. To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2GVGXOOA0000ZA5@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Organization: NYU Medical Center, 550 First Ave., New York, 10016 X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-Vms-Cc: HUFF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Did you ever notice that there is a file named "icon" in the stuffit archive? But you never see it in the folder. It's there, as an "invisible" file and can be opened using ResEdit. (ResEdit is available free to anyone on ftp.apple.com somewhere in the /dts or /macdts or maybe dts/mac tree...) If you choose "get file/folder information" on the ResEdit file menu, select the folder and click the "get info" button rather than the "open" button, you will find a check box which says "use custom icon". Click on this and close the window and say save changes. Voila, the nifty icon is visible... There is one in the macros folder (with var i,j: yellow light bulb) and one in the source folder. Normally, these icon files are created by the finder when you paste an icon over the generic folder icon in the folder get info window of the finder. I couldn't find any way to resurrect them without using ResEdit. Does anyone know a better way? From harvey_bernard@serveur1.imi.nrc.ca Thu Sep 2 09:42:43 1993 Received: from serveur1.imi.nrc.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20513; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 09:42:43 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309021442.AA20513@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 2 Sep 93 10:57:02 U From: "Harvey Bernard" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Gif Viewer Hello, I am new on your list. My name is Bernard Harvey and I work for NRC Montreal. I am search for a Gif Viewer/translator to work with a Gif image with NIH-Image, can you help me? Thank's a lot. From wayne@helix.nih.gov Thu Sep 2 09:55:19 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20680; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 09:58:08 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA18118; Thu, 2 Sep 93 10:14:25 -0400 Message-Id: <9309021414.AA18118@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 09:55:19 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Gif Viewer >Hello, I am new on your list. My name is Bernard Harvey and I work for NRC >Montreal. >I am search for a Gif Viewer/translator to work with a Gif image with >NIH-Image, can you help me? There are two programs(Giffer and GIFConverter) on zippy.nimh.nih.gov, in the /pub/nih-image/programs directory, that will convert GIF files into the PICT and TIFF formats that NIH Image understands. A GIF plug-in would be even better. Does anyone know if one exits? Does anyone want to write one? It could be written in C and I hear you can get GIF C code from Compuserve. --wayne From sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Thu Sep 2 07:02:40 1993 Received: from GATEKEEPER.ROCHE.COM by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20741; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 10:02:59 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by gatekeeper.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA27773; Thu, 2 Sep 93 11:02:40 -0400 Received: by mailgate.roche.com (5.65/fma-120691); id AA17861; Thu, 2 Sep 93 10:59:25 -0400 From: sarmienu@rnisd0.DNET.roche.com Message-Id: <9309021459.AA17861@mailgate.roche.com> Received: from rnisd0.enet; by inet.enet; Thu, 2 Sep 93 11:02:40 EDT Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 11:02:40 EDT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Apparently-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: more on Quadra 840av On top of everything already said, if you can get images from your Camcorder in the Quadra 840av, I think is a better deal than getting the Scion LG-3 on say... a Quadra 800. Too bad we just got a Quadra 800 and a Scion LG-3. Was I to early or was Apple to late? I guess that is the price of computer progress... Juan I. Sarmiento Department of Toxicology and Pathology Hoffmann-La Roche, INC. 340 Kingsland street Nutley, NJ 07110 (201) 235 43 42 From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Thu Sep 2 10:04:55 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20750; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 10:04:55 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309021504.AA20750@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 2 Sep 1993 11:02:47 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Icons To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ Icons Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu This is trivial and probably frivolous but how about making the blue colored icon that was uploaded to zippy the standard icon for image? Since image only works in the 8 bit mode of the Mac I think it is fitting that it should have an 8bit icon! As I say just my 10cents worth. From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu Thu Sep 2 15:29:30 1993 Received: from Sdsc.Edu (m5.sdsc.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21141; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 10:30:03 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 15:29:30 GMT From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten) Message-Id: <930902152930.204008a5@m5.sdsc.edu> Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabb To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH Re: the chip used in the 840av. A recent issue of MacUser indicated that this is a Phillips chip, and apparently the same one used in the VideoSpigot. No further details, other than it can accept NTSC and S-Video inputs. (And the 840av is also able to output NTSC and S-Video. I assume that it can also output PAL/SECAM for European scan rates. But no info was given.) Harvey J. Karten, M.D. Dept. Neurosciences UCSD 0608 La Jolla, CA 92093 Phone (619)-534-4938 FAX (619)-534-6602 E-Mail KARTENH@SDSC.EDU From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Thu Sep 2 09:04:45 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21980; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 12:05:04 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA28888; Thu, 2 Sep 93 13:04:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 13:04:45 -0400 Message-Id: <9309021704.AA28888@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabb >Re: the chip used in the 840av. A recent issue of MacUser indicated that >this is a Phillips chip, and apparently the same one used in the VideoSpigot. I don't think too many in the science community will want videospigot quality data. Those things are for quicktime and the like. Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From Scott.Wurcer@analog.com Thu Sep 2 09:47:09 1993 Received: from nic.near.net by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00511; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 12:46:59 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [137.71.23.11] by nic.near.net id ab16489; 2 Sep 93 13:47 EDT Received: from nwd2sun1.analog.com ([137.71.22.41]) by adi.analog.com Received: from titania.adsdesign.analog.com by nwd2sun1.analog.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) Message-Id: <9309021745.AA01821@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Received: from hermia.adsdesign.analog.com by titania.adsdesign.analog.com Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 13:47:09 EDT From: Scott Wurcer To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu Subject: AV840 Framegrabber? Hi Everyone, While working on the RGB to NTSC (or PAL) chip (code name "mickey") for Apple we (Analog Devices) have had a beta AV840 for quite some time. Right now my personal interest in NIH-Image is as a platform for CCD-astronomy, mainly as a hobby. Virtually all of the CCD-astronomy, amateur at least, that I have come across is done on the PC. Being able to connect a camera directly to an S-Video input would be exciting, and eliminate hardware dependencies. The AV840 motherboard has the Philips chip-set TDA8708/TDA8709 for digitising NTSC or PAL video. The data book for these states that up to 30Mhz sampling is possible. Considering that Apple is probably most interested in compressed Quicktime movies I doubt that getting at the max capabilities of these devices will be easy, if even possible. I have not found any control panels or utilities for video input either. S-Video is supported though. Since I can probably borrow this machine off and on, I am very interested in trying out its video capabilities. I would also be willing to gather and share any info I get. I hope this sheds a little light. --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From RAND@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU Thu Sep 2 09:59:49 1993 Received: from BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00710; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 12:59:12 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU by BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU (PMDF V4.2-11 #3847) id <01H2H4CP000W00210Y@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU>; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 13:59:49 EDT Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1993 13:59:49 -0400 (EDT) From: RAND@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU Subject: Re: Icons To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2H4CP000Y00210Y@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU> X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: How to display the folder Icons which come with Image. In Zippy pub/image/contrib there is a file, Image_Icons.hqx which has four icons for Image in it, compressed with Compactor Pro. I made and uploaded them a while ago, and rather hoped that Wayne would select one as the "official" icon for the program. I've added three more color variations and uploaded them today. When they are uncompressed they appear as standard, empty text files (made with TexEdit). All you need to do is the standard system 7 procedure "Get Info" for the icon file and the program file, copy the color icon, and paste it over the program file icon in the file information box. ResEdit is not necessary. I like the gray icon the best, and nominate it as the official program icon. The others are for those who like to customize their computers, which is why I've also included a laser-line variant for each differently-colored icon. (This is trivial and frivolous, but it's a Macintosh; get used to it.) The new file is called 10_Image_Icons.hqx. Mark Rand, Ph.D. Yale University School of Medicine Neuroscience Research Center V.A M.C. 127A, West Haven, CT 06516 From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu Thu Sep 2 10:12:05 1993 Received: from synapse.UMDNJ.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01054; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 13:21:02 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 14:12:05 EDT From: "Herbert M. Geller" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: Image vs Photoshop?? Message-Id: <9309021412.aa27958@synapse.umdnj.edu> I have both Image and Photoshop. We use each of them for different purposes: Image is very good for quantitation, grabbing, and all the things that Image does, it does really well. However, Photoshop can handle the publication details that Image was not designed for. We use it for making montages of images, for color enhancement (Photoshop can handle 24 bit color). I think it's great to have both. Herb Geller Robert Wood Johnson Medical School Piscataway, NJ From harvey_bernard@serveur1.imi.nrc.ca Thu Sep 2 13:24:53 1993 Received: from serveur1.imi.nrc.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01111; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 13:24:53 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309021824.AA01111@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 2 Sep 93 14:39:48 U From: "Harvey Bernard" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: NIH-Image documentation I am using NIH-Image for about 3 weeks and it is very helpful, but I dont have any documentation. I know that is a shareware program but I dont know where to send the money and the amount. Can you please give me the adress and the price and Email the documentation. Thank's. BH. From bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il Thu Sep 2 23:51:20 1993 Received: from dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA01513; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 13:43:36 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [132.76.66.47] by dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il via SMTP (920110.SGI/911001.SGI) for nih-image@soils.umn.edu id AA17714; Thu, 2 Sep 93 21:21:29 +0200 Message-Id: <9309021921.AA17714@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 21:51:20 +0200 To: From: bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il (David L. Hirschberg) X-Sender: bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il (Unverified) Subject: Re: Quadra 840AV advantages? I saw this thread and I have a related question! Assuming that one will eventaully be able to capture images using NIH-Image with the 840av, how does the frame grabber in the new Quadra compare with other cards like the Scion card? If they are identical then it seems it will be muich cheaper to buy an 840av. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David L. Hirschberg bnhirsch@dapsas.weizmann.ac.il Department of Neurobiology (972) 834-2127 work Weizmann Institute of Science (972) 847-4805 home Rehovot 76100 Israel (972) 834-4131 fax From wayne@helix.nih.gov Thu Sep 2 15:36:07 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03160; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 15:38:20 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA18683; Thu, 2 Sep 93 15:55:19 -0400 Message-Id: <9309021955.AA18683@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 15:36:07 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Sort Palette I will see if I can get a SortLUT command into v1.52. Do you you ever need to sort by intensity or saturation? It would be simpler to eliminate these options on only allow sorting by hue. --wayne From vavra@Arco.COM Thu Sep 2 11:20:29 1993 Received: from Arco.COM (inetg1.Arco.COM) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03599; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 16:19:12 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.201.30.85] by Arco.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24356; Thu, 2 Sep 93 16:19:32 CDT Message-Id: <9309022119.AA24356@Arco.COM> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 16:20:29 -0500 To: From: vavra@Arco.COM X-Sender: drrclv@inetg1.arco.com Subject: Re: Sort Palette >I will see if I can get a SortLUT command into v1.52. Do you you ever need >to sort by intensity or saturation? It would be simpler to eliminate these >options on only allow sorting by hue. > >--wayne At present I only have use for sorting by hue. Eliminating the others would not affect my applications. --------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Vavra Reservoir Geology vavra@arco.com ARCO Exploration & (214) 754-6420 Production Technology From COIN@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Thu Sep 2 14:28:44 1993 Received: from NIEHS.NIH.GOV (vaxe.niehs.nih.gov) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04327; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 17:28:04 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from NIEHS.NIH.GOV by NIEHS.NIH.GOV (PMDF V4.2-13 #3461) id <01H2HDLZ8PV89AN9BL@NIEHS.NIH.GOV>; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 18:28:44 EDT Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1993 18:28:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Patrick Coin Subject: Photo CD To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU Message-Id: <01H2HDLZ8PVA9AN9BL@NIEHS.NIH.GOV> X-Vms-To: IN%"NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Has anyone succeeded in getting the Kodak Photoshop Photo CD plug-in to work with NIH Image? There was a thread on this a while ago, but I haven't seen any more on it. In a related question, has anyone used Kodak's PhotoEdge image enhancement software? (It is supposed to be used for editing Photo CD images-adjusting color balance, tone, etc.) Thanks! Patrick Coin MD D2-02 NIEHS PO 12233 RTP, NC 27709 COIN@NIEHS.NIH.GOV From COIN@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Thu Sep 2 14:34:24 1993 Received: from NIEHS.NIH.GOV (vaxe.niehs.nih.gov) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04399; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 17:33:45 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from NIEHS.NIH.GOV by NIEHS.NIH.GOV (PMDF V4.2-13 #3461) id <01H2HDVBRGA29AN9BL@NIEHS.NIH.GOV>; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 18:34:24 EDT Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1993 18:34:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Patrick Coin Subject: Color output from Image stacks To: NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU Message-Id: <01H2HDVBRGA49AN9BL@NIEHS.NIH.GOV> X-Vms-To: IN%"NIH-IMAGE@SOILS.UMN.EDU" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Does anyone know any way to get Agfa's slidemaker to output a 3-slice Image stack as 24 bit color? The driver program for the slidemaker normally outputs 24 bit TIFF files quite nicely, but it does the separation to RGB on its own-I don't see any way to get the Image stack into 24 bit TIFF. Perhaps somebody has a macro for this? In a related question, does anyone have any suggestions for photographing a Macintosh screen to produce color slides? For example, any recommendations on type of film, exposure, some attempt to control color balance? Thanks Patrick Coin MD D2-02 NIEHS PO 12233 RTP, NC 27709 COIN@NIEHS.NIH.GOV From mt1ntg@fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au Fri Sep 3 19:49:20 1993 Received: from fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA05199; Thu, 2 Sep 1993 18:50:10 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309022350.AA05199@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from [160.64.14.216] by fencer.cis.dsto.gov.au with SMTP; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 9:57:23 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 09:49:20 +1000 To: NIH-IMAGE@soils.umn.edu From: Noel Subject: RE: 3D Perception The program which allows viewing of stereo images by breaking them up into dots and displaying these on one image is called RDA. It is in wuarchive.wustl.edu in the dir /mirrors/info-mac under grf as random_dot_autostereograms. I quote from the docs there. Random Dot Autostereograms (RDAs) are images that contain three dimensional information in a single image instead of a pair of images typically refered to as a stereo pair. When the RDA is properly viewed, the random dots appear to come out of or go into the viewing plane (Monitor, Paper, etc...). To view an RDA one must focus infront of the viewing plane, or behind the viewing plane. Focusing in front of the viewing plane is done by becoming crossed eyed. Focusing behind the viewing plane is done by becoming wall eyed. The RDA Viewer can read RDA images. It can also display PICT images. The Viewer can generate the same RDA images as provided. Generation takes a considerable amount of time. If you are running a 68000 or a machine without the 68881 FPU, then you shouldn't generate any images unless you have plenty of time (30 minutes). The advantage to generating images is that you can display the contours of the data. The RDA viewer now has an equation editor. You can enter in your own mathematical equations and view their results as an RDA or as a contour. The Viewer can save the images generated as PICT files, and these have been provided. Open an RDA image with the Viewer Application. I suggest the file "circle.PICT". Under the View menu, select "Show Repition Rate". This is the amount the eyes must be crossed or wall eyed to view the image. The two dots shown by Show Repition Rate are a guide to help you focus. Focus your eyes (by crossing of walling) util the two dots fuse to make three dots, on focused in the middle, and two fuzzy dots, one on each side of the focused middle dot. If you see four dots you have not crossed or walled enough. Sometimes it helps to put your finger in front of the image and focus on it, and in the background notice if there are three dots yet. Move your finger closer and further away until you have three dots. Once you have three dots, you must keep them focused and start to look down and towards the middle of the image. You will see the dots on different levels, at different depths. RDA Equation Examiner ShareWare By: Barton Stander Consulting by: Geoffrey Slinker If you like this program send $7.00 to: Barton Stander K39 Nez Perce Pullman, WA 99163 there is an email address in the docs bstander@eecs.wsu.edu Hope this helps Noel Noel T Goldsmith DSTO Aeronautical Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Port Melbourne Vic 3207 Australia From bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il Fri Sep 3 00:07:59 1993 Received: from dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09218; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 03:38:37 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [132.76.66.47] by dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il via SMTP (920110.SGI/911001.SGI) for nih-image@soils.umn.edu id AA16032; Thu, 2 Sep 93 21:38:08 +0200 Message-Id: <9309021938.AA16032@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1993 22:07:59 +0200 To: From: bnhirsch@dapsas1.weizmann.ac.il (David L. Hirschberg) Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabber >On Thu, 2 Sep 1993 04:39:41 -0500, David L. Hirschberg wrote: > >>I saw this thread and I have a related question! >> >>Assuming that one will eventaully be able to capture images using NIH-Image >>with the 840av, how does the frame grabber in the new Quadra compare with >>other cards like the Scion card? If they are identical then it seems it >>will be muich cheaper to buy an 840av. > >Wayne posted this helpful message few days ago: > >NIH Image cannot use the built-in frame grabber of the Quadra 840AV or >Centris 660AV and there is no easy way I can make this happen soon since I >don't have either of these machines and have no plans to get one. The next >Mac I plan to get will be a PowerPC. I am hoping that someone will write a >plug-in to access the built-in frame grabber on the AV Macs. > >--wayne > *------------------------------------------------------------------* > | Rupert Wimmer Environmental Science Division | > | Phone: (615)574-7358 Oak Ridge National Laboratory | > | Fax: (615)576-9939 P.O. Box 2008, Bldg. 1506 | > | rupert@jupiter.esd.ornl.gov Oak Ridge, Tennessee 37831-6034 | > *------------------------------------------------------------------* Er..Thanks Rupert, but Wayne's helpful answer is not the answer to my question. What I want to know is if the Quadra 840a/v can do the same quality framegrabbing as cards like Scions. I am not sure who the a/v models are marketed to but Apple usually has pretty high standards for their components. I already have a Quadra 950 with a Scion board. I was thinking about getting an 840a/v for a second station and wondered how it would compare. >I don't think too many in the science community will want videospigot >quality data. Those things are for quicktime and the like. > >Mark Vivino >NIH/DCRT >mvivino@helix.nih.gov Can you be more specific? I am not that familiar with quicktime other then watching a few movies on my mac. Is the resolution of images on quicktime lower? Is the limitation of images the Phillips chip or the Video Spigot software? Thanks for all the responses. Also sorry for the duplicate post a few minutes ago. David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David L. Hirschberg bnhirsch@dapsas.weizmann.ac.il Department of Neurobiology (972) 834-2127 work Weizmann Institute of Science (972) 847-4805 home Rehovot 76100 Israel (972) 834-4131 fax From set@eru.mt.luth.se Fri Sep 3 12:42:07 1993 Received: from eru.mt.luth.se by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09731; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 04:41:49 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.240.1.176] (osse219.mt.luth.se) by eru.mt.luth.se with SMTP (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/IDA-1.2.8-NS) id AA23432; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 11:42:06 +0200 Message-Id: <199309030942.AA23432@eru.mt.luth.se> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 11:42:07 +0100 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg) Subject: Plug-ins on system 6.07? X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable I have som difficulties to have plug-ins working on my mashine using system 6.0.7. They doesen't show up in eiter the Aquisation Plug-ins, or Filter Plug-ins meny. Have tried to put the folder in both system- and "home" folder. I found a wery nice Filter Plug-ins named Expression3.0, by applying the filter Iv'e got the message "Program aborted error type 3 occured", or something like that since it was in swedish. Any comments on this. ********************************************************* * * * Sven-Erik Tiberg * * Div. of energy / mashineenginnering * * Lulea University of Technology * * Lulea Sweden * * email set@eru.mt.luth.se * * Fax. S-(0)920-91047 * * Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638 * * * ********************************************************* From mvivino@helix.nih.gov Fri Sep 3 04:27:18 1993 Received: from helix.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10918; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 07:26:58 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mavmac.dcrt.nih.gov by helix.nih.gov (5.64/1.35(helix-1.0)) id AA12290; Fri, 3 Sep 93 08:27:18 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 08:27:18 -0400 Message-Id: <9309031227.AA12290@helix.nih.gov> To: From: mvivino@helix.nih.gov X-Sender: mvivino@128.231.128.13 Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabber >>I don't think too many in the science community will want videospigot >>quality data. Those things are for quicktime and the like. bnhirsch@dapsas.weizmann.ac.il asks: >Can you be more specific? How do the words and phrases like noisy, undersampled, quick and dirty, cute but not very practical, good for making little dinky movie snipets, and much much more sound? Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Fri Sep 3 07:51:14 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11244; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 07:51:14 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309031251.AA11244@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 3 Sep 1993 08:52:29 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabb To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ RE>>Quadra 840av framegrabbe Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu I just read the MacWorld short review of the av Macs and while it mentions the video capabilities the major thrust of the article was on the sound capabilities. OK so everyone wants to talk to their computer and have it understand but what about the imaging capabilites?!! I supposed I will have to wait to play with one to get the real scoop. -------------------------------------- Date: 9/3/93 8:32 To: John Mansfield From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu >>I don't think too many in the science community will want videospigot >>quality data. Those things are for quicktime and the like. bnhirsch@dapsas.weizmann.ac.il asks: >Can you be more specific? How do the words and phrases like noisy, undersampled, quick and dirty, cute but not very practical, good for making little dinky movie snipets, and much much more sound? Mark Vivino NIH/DCRT mvivino@helix.nih.gov ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mse.engin.umich.edu with SMTP;3 Sep 1993 08:31:38 U Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c87384d007768; Fri, 3 Sep 93 07:27:57 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10942; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 07:27:11 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 07:27:11 -0500 Message-Id: <9309031227.AA12290@helix.nih.gov> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: mvivino%helix.nih.gov@relay.tc.umn.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabber From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Sep 3 08:25:34 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11599; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 08:27:47 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA19396; Fri, 3 Sep 93 08:44:51 -0400 Message-Id: <9309031244.AA19396@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 08:25:34 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Plug-ins on system 6.07? >I have som difficulties to have plug-ins working on my mashine using system >6.0.7. They doesen't show up in eiter the Aquisation Plug-ins, or Filter >Plug-ins meny. Have tried to put the folder in both system- and "home" >folder. You must be running System 7 to use plug-ins. >I found a wery nice Filter Plug-ins named Expression3.0, by applying the >filter Iv'e got the message "Program aborted error type 3 occured", or >something like that since it was in swedish. Expression is a freeware program written by Jim Bumgardner(jbum@aol.com) that creates images that change over time according to a mathematical formula. Version 3.0b or later is required for use with NIH Image. I plan to upload Expression 3.0b to Zippy as soon as I can get the author's permission. NIH Image 1.52b6(on Zippy) comes with a macro for generating movies using Expression. --wayne From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@dbmdec5.ulb.ac.be Fri Sep 3 16:34:58 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA11846; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 08:39:25 -0500 Return-Path: <@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@dbmdec5.ulb.ac.be> Received: from rc1.vub.ac.be by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Fri, 03 Sep 93 15:39:29 +0200 Received: from dec5.ulb.ac.be (dbmdec5) by rc1.vub.ac.be (4.1/RC1-930826) id AA04295; Fri, 3 Sep 93 15:42:08 +0200 Received: by dec5.ulb.ac.be (5.65/ULB.920908) id AA22791; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 15:34:58 +0100 From: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be (Jacques VAN HELDEN) Message-Id: <9309031434.AA22791@dec5.ulb.ac.be> Subject: Re: Color output from Image stacks To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 15:34:58 +0100 (WET DST) Cc: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be (Jacques VAN HELDEN) In-Reply-To: <01H2HDVBRGA49AN9BL@NIEHS.NIH.GOV> from "Patrick Coin" at Sep 2, 93 05:38:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 903 > Does anyone know any way to get Agfa's slidemaker to output a 3-slice Image > stack as 24 bit color? The driver program for the slidemaker normally outputs > 24 bit TIFF files quite nicely, but it does the separation to RGB on its own-I > don't see any way to get the Image stack into 24 bit TIFF. Perhaps somebody > has a macro for this? I have a protocol but you need PhotoShop, which is far from free if you don't have it already. Capture color images in a stack with NIH-Image. Separate the 3 slices (Stack to Windows command) and save them separateley as PICT or TIFF files. Open the 3 images with PhotoShop. Photoshop allows you to merge three 8 bits images as 3 channels of a 24 bits image. You can then save the 24bits images as PICT or TIFF, which can be opened with Conductor, the driver for Agfa slidemakers. Not very direct, but it works. Jacques van Helden jvanheld@ulb.ac.be From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Sep 3 08:51:55 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12058; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 08:54:08 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA19439; Fri, 3 Sep 93 09:11:12 -0400 Message-Id: <9309031311.AA19439@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 08:51:55 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Color output from Image stacks >Does anyone know any way to get Agfa's slidemaker to output a 3-slice Image >stack as 24 bit color? The driver program for the slidemaker normally outputs >24 bit TIFF files quite nicely, but it does the separation to RGB on its own-I >don't see any way to get the Image stack into 24 bit TIFF. Perhaps somebody >has a macro for this? The only way I know of to do this is to save the three slices as three separate TIFF files, open them in Photoshop 2.0, use use the Merge Channels command to create an RGB image, and then save it as a 24-bit TIFF file. I don't know how to do thus in Photoshop 2.5 since it seems to be missing the Merge Channels command. An option in NIH Image to save a 3-slice stack as a 24-bit TIFF file is on my list of things to do. --wayne From phskcc@emrycc.cc.emory.edu Tue Sep 3 05:11:00 1993 Received: from emoryu1.cc.emory.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12315; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 09:09:20 -0500 Received: from emrycc.cc.emory.edu by emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (5.65/Emory_cc.3.4.6) via SMTP id AA11325 ; Fri, 3 Sep 93 10:09:38 -0400 Return-Path: phskcc@emrycc.cc.emory.edu Message-Id: <9309031409.AA11325@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> Date: 3 Sep 93 10:11:00 EST From: "K. C. CHAN" Subject: Chinese Characters To: "nih-image" I want to put some chinese characters on an image that I captured from electro chemical deposition that resembles a chinese painting. Does anyone know where and how can I get a software than can do chinese characters? K.C. Chan Physics, Emory University Physkcc@emrycc From rwwolfe@discovery.oar.net Fri Sep 3 06:40:12 1993 Received: from discovery.oar.net by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12712; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 09:39:52 -0500 Return-Path: Received: for rwwolfe@discovery.oar.net by discovery.oar.net (5.64+IDA+kva/921206.2314) id AA18797; Fri, 3 Sep 93 10:40:12 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 10:40:12 -0400 From: Robert W. Wolfe Message-Id: <9309031440.AA18797@discovery.oar.net> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: RE: 3D Perception Noel Goldsmith writes: The program which allows viewing of stereo images by breaking them up into dots and displaying these on one image is called RDA. It is in wuarchive.wustl.edu in the dir /mirrors/info-mac under grf as random_dot_autostereograms. The program may indeed be found in that archive and directory (as well as many other mirrors of info-mac). Please note, however, that the name of the program is random-dot-stereograms.hqx hyphens, not underlines, and an extension of '.hqx' Robert W. Wolfe University of Rio Grande Rio Grande OH From @cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@dbmdec5.ulb.ac.be Fri Sep 3 17:37:02 1993 Received: from cc1.kuleuven.ac.be by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12754; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 09:42:29 -0500 Return-Path: <@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:jvanheld@dbmdec5.ulb.ac.be> Received: from rc1.vub.ac.be by cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Fri, 03 Sep 93 16:42:11 +0200 Received: from dec5.ulb.ac.be (dbmdec5) by rc1.vub.ac.be (4.1/RC1-930826) id AA06384; Fri, 3 Sep 93 16:44:13 +0200 Received: by dec5.ulb.ac.be (5.65/ULB.920908) id AA24008; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 16:37:03 +0100 From: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be (Jacques VAN HELDEN) Message-Id: <9309031537.AA24008@dec5.ulb.ac.be> Subject: Re: Color output from Image stacks To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 16:37:02 +0100 (WET DST) Cc: jvanheld@dbm.ulb.ac.be (Jacques VAN HELDEN) In-Reply-To: <9309031311.AA19439@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> from "Wayne Rasband" at Sep 3, 93 09:04:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 769 > The only way I know of to do this is to save the three slices as three > separate TIFF files, open them in Photoshop 2.0, use use the Merge Channels > command to create an RGB image, and then save it as a 24-bit TIFF file. I > don't know how to do thus in Photoshop 2.5 since it seems to be missing the > Merge Channels command. An option in NIH Image to save a 3-slice stack as a > 24-bit TIFF file is on my list of things to do. In photoShop 2.5, you have to execute the "Show Channels" command in the Window menu. This displays a control box with the channels of the current image. In the upper right corner of this Channels control box, you have an arrow opening a menu with a "Merge Channels" command. Hope it helps, Jacques van Helden jvanheld@ulb.ac.be From @YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu:Mike_Schwartz@QUICKMAIL.CIS.YALE.EDU Fri Sep 3 10:49:39 1993 Received: from YALEVM.YCC.YALE.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13451; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 10:49:39 -0500 Return-Path: <@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu:Mike_Schwartz@QUICKMAIL.CIS.YALE.EDU> Message-Id: <199309031549.AA13451@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from quickmail.yale.edu by YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Fri, 03 Sep 93 11:48:29 EDT Date: 3 Sep 1993 11:52:11 U From: "Mike Schwartz" Subject: I've tried to use the NuVis To: "Image List" Return-Receipt-To: "Mike Schwartz" I've tried to use the NuVisata+ plug-in with Image 1.5 without success. NuVista shows up in the acquire menu, however, if I select NuVista from this menu, nothing happens. The same plug-in and procedure works fine for acuiring images in Photoshop. Anybody have any suggestions? From dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu Fri Sep 3 06:05:44 1993 Received: from bmrl.med.uiuc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13729; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 11:05:24 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by bmrl.med.uiuc.edu id AA21920 (5.67a/IDA-1.4.2 for nih-image@soils.umn.edu); Fri, 3 Sep 1993 11:05:44 -0500 From: Doug Morris Message-Id: <199309031605.AA21920@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu> Subject: Use of Expression 3.0a with NIH Image 1.52b6 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 11:05:44 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9309031311.AA19439@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> from "Wayne Rasband" at Sep 3, 93 08:55:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 624 Wayne, I tried out your Expression Movie Macro with the version of Expression 3.0 available on info-mac. Expression causes a type 3 error and exits. I was running this on a Centris 650. Are you using a different version of Expression? Thanks | Doug Morris | University of Illinois | | email: dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu | Biomedical Magnetic Resonance Lab | | fax: 217-244-1330 | 1307 W. Park St. | | voice: 217-244-0290 | Urbana Il 61801 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pdevries@macc.wisc.edu Fri Sep 3 05:55:17 1993 Received: from vms2.macc.wisc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA14465; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 11:52:37 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from rubble.bocklabs.wisc.edu by vms2.macc.wisc.edu; Fri, 03 Sep 93 11:50 CDT Message-Id: <23090311500168@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 11:55:17 -0600 From: (Pete DeVries) Subject: Re: Quadra 840av framegrabber To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Sender: pdevries@vms2.macc.wisc.edu >>>I don't think too many in the science community will want videospigot >>>quality data. Those things are for quicktime and the like. > >bnhirsch@dapsas.weizmann.ac.il asks: >>Can you be more specific? > >How do the words and phrases like noisy, undersampled, quick and dirty, >cute but not very practical, good for making little dinky movie snipets, >and much much more sound? I think people are mixing two different capture modes: 1) QuickTime Movie Capture - individual frames are noisy 2) Still Frame Capture - good quality image capture We have a Centris 660av, and I have used it with a Hi-8 (s-video) camera to capture pictures of people for our department's database. As I understand it, the av's Mac's capture 16-bit color images. I have found these images to be very good. What is not clear to me is how good the images would be if captured from a black and white camera. The Quadra 840av Mac's run at 40MHz, so they would be a good choice for a second station even if your application required the purchase of a SCION board. -Pete ------------------------------------------------ Pete DeVries Information Processing Consultant University of Wisconsin - Madison Laboratory of Molecular Biology (608) 262-3403 Integrated Microscopy Resource (608) 263-6288 Email: pdevries@macc.wisc.edu FAX (608) 262-4570 ------------------------------------------------- From skim@signal.poly.edu Fri Sep 3 09:34:21 1993 Received: from signal.poly.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15077; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 12:38:10 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by signal.poly.edu (5.65/1.34) id AA17169; Fri, 3 Sep 93 13:34:21 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 13:34:21 -0400 From: skim@signal.poly.edu (Seung Pil Kim) Message-Id: <9309031734.AA17169@signal.poly.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: images to 35mm slides What is the most effective set-up for converting high resolution computer images to 35mm slides or photo prints ? S.P. Kim From @adi.analog.com:Scott.Wurcer@analog.com Fri Sep 3 10:11:35 1993 Received: from nic.near.net by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15541; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 13:11:23 -0500 Return-Path: <@adi.analog.com:Scott.Wurcer@analog.com> Received: from adi.analog.com by nic.near.net id aa22974; 3 Sep 93 14:11 EDT Received: from nwd2sun1.analog.com ([137.71.22.41]) by adi.analog.com Received: from titania.adsdesign.analog.com by nwd2sun1.analog.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) Message-Id: <9309031809.AA09236@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Received: from hermia.adsdesign.analog.com by titania.adsdesign.analog.com Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 14:11:35 EDT From: Scott Wurcer To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Unrolled FFT I recently had a need for a 2D Complex FFT and could not find the appropriate Image spin-off. Coincidentally I had been discussing unrolling of functions for speed with one of our CAD gurus who said that the floating-point loops of an FFT would benefit little from unrolling. Nevertheless I unrolled a 512 point FFT (into >300k of code) and got a great improvement, 26.9sec for a complex 512X512 FFT on a Centris 650 (19.7sec on an AV840). My question is, since I have no comparisons, is this good or am I wasting my time ? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Fri Sep 3 13:19:26 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15614; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 13:19:26 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309031819.AA15614@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 3 Sep 1993 14:16:31 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Re: Use of Expression 3.0a w To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ RE>Use of Expression 3.0a with Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu I too had th esame error message. I assumed I didnt have all the program. -------------------------------------- Date: 9/3/93 13:52 To: John Mansfield From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Wayne, I tried out your Expression Movie Macro with the version of Expression 3.0 available on info-mac. Expression causes a type 3 error and exits. I was running this on a Centris 650. Are you using a different version of Expression? Thanks | Doug Morris | University of Illinois | | email: dmorris@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu | Biomedical Magnetic Resonance Lab | | fax: 217-244-1330 | 1307 W. Park St. | | voice: 217-244-0290 | Urbana Il 61801 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mse.engin.umich.edu with SMTP;3 Sep 1993 13:51:59 U Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c876b95009769; Fri, 3 Sep 93 11:06:45 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13754; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 11:05:43 -0500 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 11:05:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199309031605.AA21920@bmrl.med.uiuc.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Doug Morris To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Use of Expression 3.0a with NIH Image 1.52b6 From ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu Fri Sep 3 04:26:55 1993 Received: from nak.Berkeley.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16587; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 14:27:58 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from nature.Berkeley.EDU by nak.berkeley.edu (5.67/1.40) id AA07321; Fri, 3 Sep 93 12:28:19 -0700 Received: from [128.32.128.170] (kos5mac15.Berkeley.EDU) by nature.berkeley.edu.cnr-net (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21824; Fri, 3 Sep 93 12:30:13 PDT Message-Id: <9309031930.AA21824@nature.berkeley.edu.cnr-net> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 12:26:55 -0800 To: From: ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu (Steven Ruzin) Subject: Re: images to 35mm slides >What is the most effective set-up for converting high resolution >computer images to 35mm slides or photo prints ? > >S.P. Kim I use the following setup: [SGI 32-bit RGB -> SGI TIFF -> Mac via Fetch -> Photoshop TIFF] or Image TIFF -> change to PICT -> install in an "Image queue" using LaserGraphics software -> print at 4000lpi on a LaserGraphics Raster Image Processor film recorder. The lasergraphics software requires PICT format. Also, with objects on top of an image (eg:arrows) the format must be PICT to retain high resolution object rendering. For slides I use 100 ASA Ektachrome or Fuji film. For prints I make slides to preserve color fidelity and then have custom ciba prints made. (I've had terrible results from quickie photo shops. They just cannot reproduce correct color from anything that doesn't have people in it.) Steve... /////////////////////////////////////////////// | Steven Ruzin | | NSF Center of Plant Developmental Biology | | Dept Plant Biology | | Univ California Berkeley | | e-mail: ruzin@nature.berkeley.edu | | phone: 510-642-6602 | /////////////////////////////////////////////// From wayne@helix.nih.gov Fri Sep 3 14:57:57 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17139; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 15:00:13 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA20034; Fri, 3 Sep 93 15:17:17 -0400 Message-Id: <9309031917.AA20034@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 14:57:57 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Use of Expression 3.0a You must use Expression 3.0b(or later) with NIH Image. I plan to upload this version to zippy.nimh.nih.gov as soon as I can get the author's permission. For those not familiar with Expression, I have included a description. --wayne -------------------------------------------------------- Expression 3.0 Plug In for Photoshop@ and Premiere@ @ 1992,1993 Jim Bumgardner (jbum@netcom.com, jbum@aol.com) Technical Explanation: Expression is a Photoshop filter that can create images that change over time according to a mathematical formula or expression (thus the name). Possible uses: Make psychedelic movies and OpArt. Create test patterns galore. Make wallpaper. Make patterns for textiles / weavings. Explore mathematics - zoom into the Mandelbrot set. Create animated wipe stencils. Create interesting texture and bump maps for 3D graphics. Do all kinds of image processing. Bring your Quadra to its knees! How does it work? Expression is a plug-in filter for Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Premiere. It contains a little interpreter that solves an arithmetical expression for each pixel in an image. It changes each pixel to a color that corresponds to the result of the expression. You tell Expression which expressions to solve and how to map the results to a specific color. When Premiere applies the expression filter to successive frames of a movie, the results can vary according to the frame number, thus creating animation. What do I need in order to use it? This version of Expression requires a Mac with a 68020 chip and a 68881 fpu. It has been optimized to be fastest on a Quadra, it will run a little slower than it should on an FX or other non-68040 based Mac. Expression works with both Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Premiere. How do I use it? With Photoshop Place a copy of Expression in the folder where all your other Photoshop filters are. Activate the filter from the Filter > Other sub-menu. The Expression dialog box will appear (see below). Fill in the blanks or select one of the presets. Expression will than modify the selected area accordingly. With Premiere Expression really comes into its own when used with Adobe Premiere. You can use it to create movies from scratch or to modify existing material. Place a copy of Expression in the folder where your other Premiere plug-ins are kept. Tip: It is a very good idea to test your expression movie ideas in Photoshop first, to make sure your frames work. Select a small area of an image to process and apply the filter multiple times with Cmd-F. The t variable will increase by one each time, showing you how your animation will look. To create a movie from scratch, create a black matte in the Project window using the "Add Matte@" menu command. This will give Expression some raw material to work with. Drag the matte into the construction window in video track A or B and stretch it the duration you would like your movie to be. I usually create movies that are just a few seconds long, because they take a long time to generate. Select the matte track by clicking on it and then select the "Filters@" menu command. Select Expression from the list of filters on the left and hit the "@ Add @" button. The Expression dialog box will appear (see below). Fill in the blanks or select one of the presets. Later, when you select "Preview" or "Make Movie@", Premiere will apply the Expression filter to each frame. This will significantly add to the length of time it takes to output each frame, depending on the complexity of the expression. Mandelbrot and Julia sets take especially long to generate. It took 14 hours to generate a 2.5 minute fractal zoom movie on a Quadra 900 (The results were well worth it though!) Using Expression with other programs Expression can be used with any program that uses Photoshop filters. For example it can be used to make movies with deBabelizer, and any other program which can apply Photoshop filters to the frames in a movie. You may find this more convenient then Premiere, since the whole process can be scripted. From casanova%emg2@emgmhs.mcg.edu Fri Sep 3 12:41:00 1993 Received: from emgmhs.mcg.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18022; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 16:42:21 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by emgmhs.mcg.edu from NetWare MHS, SMF-71 via XGATE 2.12 MHS to SMTP Gateway (XSMTP Module) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 17:41:00 EST From: Manuel Casanova To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: 3D Stereoscopic viewers Return-Receipt-To: X-Mailer: XGATE 2.12 MHS/SMTP Gateway 9309031727 RE>3D stereoscopic glasses I ran across an ad for ("CrystalEyes" 3D Stereoscopic Active Eyewear by StereoGraphics) in the July 93 edition of "IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications". Part of the copy read: "See your computer or video-generated images leap out of the screen in true stereoscopic 3D. CrystalEyes links switching liquid crystal lenses to an infrared emitter, delivering a full-color 3D image without a hint of flicker. CrystalEyes works with unmodified computers, video recorders, and StereoGraphics' large screen stereo projectors. For more information, call StereoGraphics 1.800.783.2660 FEATURES: Wireless, Lightweight, Supports multiple viewers, 170 degree cone of view, Gives bright & sharp image, inexpensive. APPLICATIONS: Mechanical CAD, Architectural Walk- through, Prototype modeling, Molecular modeling, Scientific visualization, Photogrammetric mapping, Flight simulation." Nathan M. DeVaughn The Medical College of Georgia Department of Psychiatry & Health Behavior Neuropathology/Neuroimaging Research Downtown VA Medical Center Floor 6 Wing B Room 121 116A Psychiatry Service Augusta, Georgia 30901 From bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Fri Sep 3 13:54:19 1993 Received: from enh.nist.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18242; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 16:54:47 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.6.98.4] (dsb-mac.nist.gov) by ENH.NIST.GOV (PMDF V4.2-13 #4653) id <01H2IQXS0P00000K0G@ENH.NIST.GOV>; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 17:54:19 EDT Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1993 17:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ENH.NIST.GOV From: bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Citing NIH Image in journal article To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2IQXSHB02000K0G@ENH.NIST.GOV> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello out there! How do you cite Wayne, and NIH image in your publications? Anyone have recent bibliographic citations for Image? Would like to give credit where it is due, in the best possible way :o). THanks, Dave ------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Bright bright@enh.nist.gov Microanalysis Research Group Chem. A113 National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST, formerly NBS) Gaithersburg, MD 20899-0001 USA 301-975-3911 From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu Fri Sep 3 22:52:22 1993 Received: from Sdsc.Edu (sds.sdsc.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18996; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 17:52:17 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 22:52:22 GMT From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten) Message-Id: <930903225222.20216c1a@sds.sdsc.edu> Subject: RE: Citing NIH Image in journal article To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH Although I don't feel that it does justice to Wayne, we describe it in the Materials and Methods section of our papers. I would be interested to know how others handle this. Harvey Karten Harvey J. Karten, M.D. Dept. of Neurosciences Univ.California San Diego La Jolla, CA 92093-0608 EMail: Kartenh@sdsc.edu Phone: (619)-534-4938 FAX: (619)-534-6602 From RAND@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU Fri Sep 3 16:03:34 1993 Received: from BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19900; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 19:02:59 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU by BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU (PMDF V4.2-11 #3847) id <01H2IUWP83JK002D8E@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU>; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 20:03:34 EDT Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1993 20:03:34 -0400 (EDT) From: RAND@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU Subject: Re: Citing NIH Image in journal article To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2IUWP8MTU002D8E@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU> X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT We have described it as "NIH Image" or "Image (NIH)" which is a bit cryptic . The last paper had the following line in Materials and Methods: "Image files were transferred to a Macintosh Quadra 950 and analysed with the program Image (Wayne Rasband, NIH)." This gives due credit, but might be a bit confusing to those who are unfamiliar with the program. In all fairness, however, I have not seen many papers which even give the name of the software used to analyse the data. Maybe it would be more appropriate to cite Wayne and the NIH in the thanks and acknowledgements section? Mark Rand, Ph.D. Yale Neuroscience Research Center V.A.M.C. 127A, West Haven, CT 06516 From morilak@cmgm.stanford.edu Fri Sep 3 10:17:44 1993 Received: from cmgm.Stanford.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20125; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 19:15:34 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from (P159-macclassic.Stanford.EDU) by cmgm.stanford.edu (4.1/1.34) id AA04566; Fri, 3 Sep 93 17:15:40 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 17:17:44 PDT From: YOUR NAME HERE Subject: RE: Citing NIH Image in journal article To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 3 Sep 1993 17:55:35 -0500 Message-Id: It seems that the appropriate method of citation should be up to Wayne. But to toss in my opinion, what I'd recommend, and what I've begun doing, is to describe in Methods the type of analysis and image processing that was done, but somewhere before I'd say something generic like "Data were processed and analyzed using the NIH-Image v. 1.xx software package (Wayne Rasband, NIH)". It seems to me that, at least in a journal article, to be brief and to-the-point is very professional, and avoids sounding like a sales pitch. David Morilak Dept Psychiatry Stanford Univ. morilak@cmgm.stanford.edu ------- From cls7@cornell.edu Fri Sep 3 16:42:56 1993 Received: from POSTOFFICE.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20573; Fri, 3 Sep 1993 19:42:38 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [132.236.236.108] (CU-DIALUP-0402.CIT.CORNELL.EDU) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu with SMTP id AA10420 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu); Fri, 3 Sep 1993 20:42:56 -0400 Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 20:42:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199309040042.AA10420@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: cls7@cornell.edu (Carl Schofield) X-Sender: cls7@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu Subject: 3-D Images There is an Image (1.51) compatible plug-in filter for Adobe Photoshop (part of the KPT filter package) that will transform any grey scale image into a "random noise" stereo image. I've used the plug-in with Image 1.51 and it generates 3-D images very quickly. From rivero@sol.cie.unizar.es Sat Sep 4 19:09:58 1993 Received: from relay.rediris.es by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28934; Sat, 4 Sep 1993 11:06:29 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from sol.cie.unizar.es (sol.unizar.es) by relay.rediris.es (PMDF V4.2-11 #4193) id <01H2K5PQIMDS8ZGA4M@relay.rediris.es>; Sat, 4 Sep 1993 18:08:28 GMT+2 Received: by sol.cie.unizar.es (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10160; Sat, 4 Sep 93 18:09:58 +0100 Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1993 18:09:58 +0100 From: rivero@sol.cie.unizar.es (Alejandro Rivero) Subject: RE: 3D Perception To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <9309041709.AA10160@sol.cie.unizar.es> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Speaking of this... I remember that people using the Vax780 know how to generate some easy (circles, squares) HOLOGRAMS. They first print them in High Qality paper, then the image was optically transferred to a high relosution film, in a reduced format, et voila. From aljo@eel.sunet.se Sat Sep 4 21:24:08 1993 Received: from decnet.sunet.se by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29492; Sat, 4 Sep 1993 12:26:21 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from EEL.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by decnet.sunet.se (5.57/Ultrix2.4-C) id AA11359; Sat, 4 Sep 93 19:24:09 +0200 Date: Sat, 4 Sep 93 19:24:08 +0200 Message-Id: <9309041724.AA11359@decnet.sunet.se> From: aljo@eel.sunet.se To: "nih-image@soils.umn.edu"@kth.sunet.se Subject: RE: Citing NIH Image in journal article I agree with Dr. Karten, I also cite Wayne and Image in the methods section and feel that it is not sufficient considering the effort that Wayne has put in over the years. Al Johnson Dept. Psychiatry, Ulleraker Uppsala University Uppsala, Sweden S-750 17 From Kardon-Randy@ophthalmology-po.ophth.uiowa.edu Wed Sep 4 06:22:00 1993 Received: from ns-mx.uiowa.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29562; Sat, 4 Sep 1993 12:34:50 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from argos.weeg.uiowa.edu by ns-mx.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/920408) on Sat, 4 Sep 93 12:35:09 -0500 id AA19268 with SMTP From: Received: by argos.weeg.uiowa.edu (5.64.jnf/921215) on Sat, 4 Sep 93 12:35:06 -0500 id AA26522 Message-Id: <9309041735.AA26522@argos.weeg.uiowa.edu> Received: by ccmail-gateway.uiowa.edu for cc:Mail translation to SMTP on Sat Sep 04 12:30:53 1993 To: Patrick Coin , Multiple recipients of list Date: 4 Sep 93 12:22 CST Subject: Color output from Image stacks I have been making slides for presentation on a regular basis by photographing from my Mac screen. I use Ektachrome-X 64 ASA with a shutter speed no faster than 1/8 of a second, with the 35 mm camera set up on a tripod. Use a longer mm lens (ie 105 mm) to reduce distortion of the curved screen and try to limit the dimensions to not go out to the edge (distortion is the main problem). If you have access to a flat screen, it would even be better. I bracket my exposures by changing the gain on the automatic mode. White backgrounds do not photograph well, so try to fill your screen mainly with other colors. Also white letters on a black background often show "glare", so avoid the whitest white for letters. Try to line up the camera with no angle, and pointed at the center of the screen. Also, turn off your screen saver! Best of luck. Randy Kardon MD PhD Neuro-ophthalmology Division and Pupil Lab (Pupils 'R Us) University of Iowa Dept Ophthalmology University of Iowa, Iowa City IA From glenmac@u.washington.edu Sat Sep 4 12:27:21 1993 Received: from carson.u.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03786; Sat, 4 Sep 1993 21:33:28 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by carson.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06127; Sat, 4 Sep 93 19:33:46 -0700 X-Sender: glenmac@carson.u.washington.edu Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1993 19:27:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Macdonald Subject: Re: Citing NIH Image in journal article To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <01H2IUWP8MTU002D8E@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii We briefly describe hardware and software in the Methods section. Hardware is usally by computer type and model, input device (camera or tablet, or SEM) by model, mfr,, city. Software is by name, company and City, e.g. - NIH Image, Wayne Rasband, NIMH, Bethesda, MD; Biosquat, R&M Biometrics, Nashville, TN. From nas16@phy.cam.ac.uk Sun Sep 5 23:43:51 1993 Received: from wcse0.phy.cam.ac.uk by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12483; Sun, 5 Sep 1993 17:42:29 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [131.111.72.41] by wcse0.phy.cam.ac.uk with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0oZSnE-000EOFC; Sun, 5 Sep 93 23:42 WET DST Message-Id: Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1993 23:43:51 +0000 To: From: nas16@phy.cam.ac.uk (Nick Safford) X-Sender: nas16@wcse0.phy.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: Chinese Characters >I want to put some chinese characters on an image that I captured from electro >chemical deposition that resembles a chinese painting. Does anyone know where >and how can I get a software than can do chinese characters? > >K.C. Chan >Physics, Emory University >Physkcc@emrycc Apple do actually have chinese system software for the Mac. You should be able to get it from your dealer. You'll need at least 10 discs. I have used the simplified Chinese and Taiwanese (traditional) system 6.0.5 and these both work fine with many applications (except, predictably enough, Microsoft ones). You may have some fun with the input methods - I had trouble getting the right characters with the pinyin input method. You can mix Roman and Chinese characters, but you do have to boot from a chinese system to use the chinese characters. It is best to have a separate hard disc for this purpose and use the 'startup disc' control panel to make your mac start in chinese. You can also use a single hard disc and switch systems using 'system switcher' or 'blesser' (presumably available by ftp from places like sumex-aim.stanford.edu), but having 2 systems on the same disc is troublesome; or you can just have a chinese-only mac. The really nice way to run a multi-lingual system is with system 7.1, but as far as I know, the chinese versions aren't out yet. I have used a Taiwanese system 7.0, but I didn't manage to make it work properly. (I got a very limited character set). I think what I needed to do was to install Taiwanese system 6, then upgrade it to a US System 7, and then upgrade that to the Taiwanese system 7. I ran out of patience. Of course, you could paint the characters using nih-image! Nick Safford 0223 337319 Cavendish Lab Madingley Rd Cambridge UK CB3 0HE From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Mon Sep 6 02:35:25 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18283; Mon, 6 Sep 1993 07:36:39 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA08406; Mon, 6 Sep 93 07:35:25 CDT Date: Mon, 6 Sep 93 07:35:25 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9309061235.AA08406@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Macs in the Sciences - Opinions wanted for MacWeek Article [forwarded from "Bruce Scheneier"] *Please* reply directly to Bruce at his email address, he doesn't read the list. Here's a chance to get Wayne some kudos in a public forum. schneier@chinet.chinet.com -jml ------- Start of forwarded message ------- >Newsgroups: sci.systems >From: schneier@chinet.chinet.com (Bruce Schneier) >Subject: Macs in the Sciences - Opinions wanted for MacWeek Article >Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1993 00:29:42 GMT Greetings: I am writing an article for the Product Watach section of MacWeek Magazine about Macintoshes in scientific research. I am looking for people with opinions, comments, and stories about the topic. What hardware and software do you use? How? Why? I need your title and affiliation, so I can refer to you in my article. Something like: Fred Flinstone, dinosaur operator at Slate Construction Co. in Bedrock, Calif. Thanks, Bruce ------- End of forwarded message ------- From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Mon Sep 6 03:52:16 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19072; Mon, 6 Sep 1993 08:53:30 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA08617; Mon, 6 Sep 93 08:52:16 CDT Date: Mon, 6 Sep 93 08:52:16 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9309061352.AA08617@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: Citing NIH Image in journal article [forwarded from herr01@maroon.tc.umn.edu] ------- Start of forwarded message ------- From: herro001@maroon.tc.umn.edu Subject: Re: Citing NIH Image in journal article Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1993 08:43:32 -0500 There is a need for some consensus here. When I first became aware of NIH Image I did a medline search to find out more, and I found _very_ little. When I spoke to others around my institutuion I found that a number of labs were using NIH Image and that many labs were very excitied to hear about it. To appear in a medline search the words "NIH Image" must appear in either the abstract or the Keywords index. Since we have only recently agreed (in this _small_ forum) to refer to the program as "NIH Image" there are many references that will remain very difficult to locate by search. I would suggest that some future version of NIH Image contain a bundled text file or (better yet) an opening screen that explains how to reference it.. This may seem like only a formal nicety, but in the long run continued support of NIH Image will probably depend on a complete bibliography. _____________________________________________________________ / Michael J. Herron University of MN, Dept. of Dermatology / / herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu / _____________________________________________________________ ------- End of forwarded message ------- From herro001@maroon.tc.umn.edu Mon Sep 6 04:21:08 1993 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19336; Mon, 6 Sep 1993 09:20:51 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309061420.AA19336@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from dialup-slip-1-73.gw.umn.edu by maroon.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8b472d015033; Mon, 6 Sep 93 09:20:34 -0500 From: "Mike Herron" Reply-To: "Mike Herron" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: Citing NIH Image in journal article [forwarded from herr01@maroon Date: Mon, 6 Sep 93 09:21:08 -0500 John, What's up? I sent a message to the soils server NIH Image group and the server claims that I am not subscribed. Am I? Did my post go out OK? See the mess below: From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1993 08:43:32 -0500 To: herro001%maroon.tc.umn.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu Cc: owner-nih-image@nx1.soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: Citing NIH Image in journal article herro001@maroon.tc.umn.edu: You are not subscribed to nih-image@soils.umn.edu. Your message is returned to you unprocessed. If you want to subscribe, send mail to listserv@soils.umn.edu with the following request: subscribe NIH-IMAGE Your Name ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is a need for some consensus here. When I first became aware of NIH Image I did a medline search to find out more, and I found _very_ little. When I spoke to others around my institutuion I found that a number of labs were using NIH Image and that many labs were very excitied to hear about it. To appear in a medline search the words "NIH Image" must appear in either the abstract or the Keywords index. Since we have only recently agreed (in this _small_ forum) to refer to the program as "NIH Image" there are many references that will remain very difficult to locate by search. I would suggest that some future version of NIH Image contain a bundled text file or (better yet) an opening screen that explains how to reference it.. This may seem like only a formal nicety, but in the long run continued support of NIH Image will probably depend on a complete bibliography. _____________________________________________________________ / Michael J. Herron University of MN, Dept. of Dermatology / / herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu / _____________________________________________________________ In message <9309061352.AA08617@saturn.soils.umn.edu> writes: > ------- Start of forwarded message ------- > From: herro001@maroon.tc.umn.edu > Subject: Re: Citing NIH Image in journal article > Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1993 08:43:32 -0500 > > There is a need for some consensus here. When I first became aware > of NIH Image I did a medline search to find out more, and I found > _very_ little. When I spoke to others around my institutuion I found > that a number of labs were using NIH Image and that many labs were > very excitied to hear about it. > > To appear in a medline search the words "NIH Image" must appear in > either the abstract or the Keywords index. Since we have only > recently agreed (in this _small_ forum) to refer to the program as > "NIH Image" there are many references that will remain very difficult > to locate by search. > > I would suggest that some future version of NIH Image contain a > bundled text file or (better yet) an opening screen that explains how > to reference it.. This may seem like only a formal nicety, but in the > long run continued support of NIH Image will probably depend on a > complete bibliography. > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > / Michael J. Herron University of MN, Dept. of Dermatology / > / herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu / > _____________________________________________________________ > > ------- End of forwarded message ------- > > > _____________________________________________________________ / Michael J. Herron University of MN, Dept. of Dermatology / / herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu / _____________________________________________________________ From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Mon Sep 6 16:55:20 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24803; Mon, 6 Sep 1993 21:56:35 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA09624; Mon, 6 Sep 93 21:55:20 CDT Date: Mon, 6 Sep 93 21:55:20 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9309070255.AA09624@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: Cc: herro001@maroon.tc.umn.edu Subject: Re: Citing NIH Image in journal article [forwarded from herr01@maroon In-Reply-To: "Mike Herron"'s message <199309061420.AA19336@nx1.soils.umn.edu> of 6 September 1993 References: <199309061420.AA19336@nx1.soils.umn.edu> "Mike Herron" writes on 6 September 1993 at 09:21:06 -0500 > John, What's up? The LISTSERV system neatly trashed all the subscription and alias information on Saturday night/Sunday morning. I'm still trying to figure out why, but restored the subscriptions nad alias information as best I could from recent backups and logs. I did, however, miss a couple of aliases, like that abrupt staff.tc.umn.edu => maroon.tc.umn.edu transformation (thanks, UMN email managers :-) Please understand if I missed anyone else. > I sent a message to the soils server NIH Image > group and the server claims that I am not subscribed. Am I? Yes, now you are valid on both staff.tc.umn.edu and maroon.tc.umn.edu > Did my post go out OK? I reposted it. -jml *sigh* From Carl.Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu Tue Sep 7 04:34:02 1993 Received: from cbis.ece.drexel.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28727; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:34:08 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from n1-5-227-ece-ipc.ece.drexel.edu by cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU (5.67/1.34) id AA26948; Tue, 7 Sep 93 08:34:02 EDT Date: Tue, 7 Sep 93 08:34:02 EDT Message-Id: <9309071234.AA26948@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> To: From: Carl.Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu (Carl Gustafson) X-Sender: cgustafs@CoE.Drexel.EDU Subject: Re: Chinese Characters >I want to put some chinese characters on an image that I captured from electro >chemical deposition that resembles a chinese painting. Does anyone know where >and how can I get a software than can do chinese characters? > >K.C. Chan >Physics, Emory University >Physkcc@emrycc How about the Chinese system software that Apple supplies? Everything is in Chinese, including menus, system dialogs, etc., and has a scheme for typing the characters based on ASCII keyboard input. Carl Gustafson =============================================================================== Imaging and Computer Vision Center | Macintosh Guy Drexel University | Software Guy Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | I only speak for myself ============================================================================ === From Tue Sep 7 04:35:40 1993 Received: from cunyvm.cuny.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28761; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:34:58 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199309071234.AA28761@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 93 08:35:40 EDT From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s): CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU received negative reply: 554 collect: Cannot write dfAA08432 ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 07 Sep 93 08:35:37 EDT Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28751; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:34:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:34:26 -0500 Message-Id: <9309071234.AA26948@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Carl.Gustafson%cbis.ece.drexel.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu (Carl Gustafson) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Chinese Characters >I want to put some chinese characters on an image that I captured from electro >chemical deposition that resembles a chinese painting. Does anyone know where >and how can I get a software than can do chinese characters? > >K.C. Chan >Physics, Emory University >Physkcc@emrycc How about the Chinese system software that Apple supplies? Everything is in Chinese, including menus, system dialogs, etc., and has a scheme for typing the characters based on ASCII keyboard input. Carl Gustafson =============================================================================== Imaging and Computer Vision Center | Macintosh Guy Drexel University | Software Guy Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | I only speak for myself ============================================================================ === From Tue Sep 7 04:43:43 1993 Received: from cunyvm.cuny.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28929; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:43:01 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199309071243.AA28929@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 93 08:43:43 EDT From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s): CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU received negative reply: 554 collect: Cannot write dfAA16895 ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 07 Sep 93 08:43:39 EDT Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28919; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:42:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:42:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199309071234.AA28761@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undeliverable Mail CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s): CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU received negative reply: 554 collect: Cannot write dfAA08432 ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 07 Sep 93 08:35:37 EDT Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28751; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:34:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:34:26 -0500 Message-Id: <9309071234.AA26948@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Carl.Gustafson%cbis.ece.drexel.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu (Carl Gustafson) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Chinese Characters >I want to put some chinese characters on an image that I captured from electro >chemical deposition that resembles a chinese painting. Does anyone know where >and how can I get a software than can do chinese characters? > >K.C. Chan >Physics, Emory University >Physkcc@emrycc How about the Chinese system software that Apple supplies? Everything is in Chinese, including menus, system dialogs, etc., and has a scheme for typing the characters based on ASCII keyboard input. Carl Gustafson =============================================================================== Imaging and Computer Vision Center | Macintosh Guy Drexel University | Software Guy Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | I only speak for myself ============================================================================ === From bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Tue Sep 7 04:42:27 1993 Received: from enh.nist.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28930; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:43:04 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.6.98.4] (dsb-mac.nist.gov) by ENH.NIST.GOV (PMDF V4.2-13 #4653) id <01H2NSTX40R4000WBX@ENH.NIST.GOV>; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 08:42:27 EDT Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1993 08:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ENH.NIST.GOV From: bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Re: Color output from Image stacks To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2NSTXKMQQ000WBX@ENH.NIST.GOV> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > Try to line up the camera with no angle, and pointed at the > center of the screen. Also, turn off your screen saver! > Randy, I used this method for some time, and it worked well. I had to darken the office (window light blocks, turn off monitor on other side of room, etc. Also I made a t-square out of balsa wood, with the long part attached via a long rubber band to the camera mount. Stretching the rubberband while holding the square at the cross with the cross member close to the Mac screen helped to allign the screen so that it was perpendicular to the camera line of sight. You're also right about the screen saver - I've photographed blurry fish more than once! :o) Dave ------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Bright bright@enh.nist.gov Microanalysis Research Group Chem. A113 National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST, formerly NBS) Gaithersburg, MD 20899-0001 USA 301-975-3911 From bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Tue Sep 7 04:42:45 1993 Received: from enh.nist.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28935; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:43:10 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.6.98.4] (dsb-mac.nist.gov) by ENH.NIST.GOV (PMDF V4.2-13 #4653) id <01H2NSTX40R4000WBX@ENH.NIST.GOV>; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 08:42:45 EDT Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1993 08:42:45 -0400 (EDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ENH.NIST.GOV From: bright@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Re: Unrolled FFT To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2NSUCLTRM000WBX@ENH.NIST.GOV> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >I recently had a need for a 2D Complex FFT and could not find the appropriate >Image spin-off. Coincidentally I had been discussing unrolling of functions for >speed with one of our CAD gurus who said that the floating-point loops of an >FFT would benefit little from unrolling. Nevertheless I unrolled a 512 point >FFT (into >300k of code) and got a great improvement, 26.9sec for a complex >512X512 FFT on a Centris 650 (19.7sec on an AV840). My question is, since I >have no comparisons, is this good or am I wasting my time ? > I, for one, would really appreciate your code. Thanks, Dave ------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Bright bright@enh.nist.gov Microanalysis Research Group Chem. A113 National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST, formerly NBS) Gaithersburg, MD 20899-0001 USA 301-975-3911 From Tue Sep 7 04:52:54 1993 Received: from cunyvm.cuny.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29098; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:52:11 -0500 Return-Path: <> Message-Id: <199309071252.AA29098@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 93 08:52:54 EDT From: To: Subject: Undeliverable Mail CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s): CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU received negative reply: 554 collect: Cannot write dfAA26289 ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 07 Sep 93 08:52:49 EDT Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA29089; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:51:39 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:51:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199309071243.AA28929@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undeliverable Mail CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s): CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU received negative reply: 554 collect: Cannot write dfAA16895 ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 07 Sep 93 08:43:39 EDT Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28919; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:42:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:42:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199309071234.AA28761@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undeliverable Mail CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU unable to deliver following mail to recipient(s): CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU received negative reply: 554 collect: Cannot write dfAA08432 ** Text of Mail follows ** Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 07 Sep 93 08:35:37 EDT Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA28751; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:34:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 07:34:26 -0500 Message-Id: <9309071234.AA26948@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Carl.Gustafson%cbis.ece.drexel.edu@relay.tc.umn.edu (Carl Gustafson) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Chinese Characters >I want to put some chinese characters on an image that I captured from electro >chemical deposition that resembles a chinese painting. Does anyone know where >and how can I get a software than can do chinese characters? > >K.C. Chan >Physics, Emory University >Physkcc@emrycc How about the Chinese system software that Apple supplies? Everything is in Chinese, including menus, system dialogs, etc., and has a scheme for typing the characters based on ASCII keyboard input. Carl Gustafson =============================================================================== Imaging and Computer Vision Center | Macintosh Guy Drexel University | Software Guy Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | I only speak for myself ============================================================================ === From RBLYSTON@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU Tue Sep 7 04:53:23 1993 Received: from vm1.tucc.trinity.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00982; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 10:00:54 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309071500.AA00982@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from VM1.tucc.trinity.edu by VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 5196; Tue, 07 Sep 93 10:00:21 CDT Received: from TRINITY.EDU (RBLYSTON) by VM1.tucc.trinity.edu (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 0893; Tue, 07 Sep 93 10:00:13 CDT Date: Tue, 07 Sep 93 09:53:23 CDT From: Robert Blystone Subject: RGB color question. To: NIH Image Net To the Net: My microscope framegabbing system has a hot spot. By using "save blank field" I am able to remove the hot spot and "dust" when operating in gray scale. How can I remove the hot spot when capturing color under NIH Image 1.51? Trying to answer my own question, I suppose the image could be broken into R, G, B and each subtracted from the blank field and the image put back together. I am not quite sure how to do this. Or if it works? I would appreciate suggestions as how to "clean up" a hot spot when capturing in color. Blystone in TExas ********************** ROBERT V. BLYSTONE PHONE:(210)736-7243 DEPARTMENT OF BIOLOGY FAX:(210)736-7229 Trinity University E-Mail:RBlyston@Trinity.edu 715 Stadium Drive San Antonio, TX, 78212 From jamiel@sybase.com Tue Sep 7 01:42:39 1993 Received: from halon.sybase.com by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA02016; Tue, 7 Sep 1993 11:41:25 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA17382; Tue, 7 Sep 93 09:42:07 PDT Received: from ralph.sybgate.sybase.com by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.2) id AA04121; Tue, 7 Sep 93 09:40:52 PDT Received: from [130.214.134.18] by ralph.sybgate.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.1) id AA10033; Tue, 7 Sep 93 09:40:22 PDT Message-Id: <9309071640.AA10033@ralph.sybgate.sybase.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 09:42:39 -0800 To: annk@sybase.com, cindy@sybase.com, crisg@sybase.com, dana@sybase.com, dee@sybase.com, dmeltzer@sybase.com, eabower@sybase.com, gmg@sybase.com, gsmith@sybase.com, hamish@sybase.com, holly@sybase.com, jenny@sybase.com, jym@sybase.com, kimberly@sybase.com, mw@sybase.com, nancyg@sybase.com, pjew@sybase.com, pritch@sybase.com, rhoda@sybase.com, rosanne@sybase.com, spriggs@sybase.com, stacey@sybase.com, theking@sybase.com, turner@sybase.com, turnidge@sybase.com, weldon@sybase.com, winn@sybase.com, dhawk@sybase.com, , , , , sfraves@techno.stanford.edu, From: jamiel@sybase.com (Jamie Lawrence) X-Sender: jamiel@ralph.sybase.com Subject: lost mail Content-Length: 176 Howdy all- Just wanted to let everyone know I lost all my mail recieved between friday and this morning. If anyone sent anything of relevence, please resend it. thanks jamie From Scott.Wurcer@analog.com Wed Sep 8 05:49:26 1993 Received: from nic.near.net by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15259; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:49:31 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [137.71.23.11] by nic.near.net id aa21491; 8 Sep 93 9:49 EDT Received: from nwd2sun1.analog.com ([137.71.22.41]) by adi.analog.com Received: from titania.adsdesign.analog.com by nwd2sun1.analog.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Received: from hermia.adsdesign.analog.com by titania.adsdesign.analog.com Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 09:49:26 EDT From: Scott Wurcer To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From Wed Sep 8 05:54:50 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15438; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:55:14 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (MAILER@MAINE) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2P7JRB8Y8B12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:54:52 CDT Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@MAINE) by MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5154; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:54:50 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 09:54:50 -0400 From: RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.1d/1.7f) Subject: Undelivered mail To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Reply-To: Postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Message-Id: <01H2P7JRB8YAB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (28 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:54:49 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de3a3017654; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:52:35 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15419; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Scott Wurcer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From Wed Sep 8 06:04:03 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15523; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:04:00 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (MAILER@MAINE) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2P7UWEPK0B12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:03:51 CDT Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@MAINE) by MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5286; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:04:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 10:04:03 -0400 From: RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.1d/1.7f) Subject: Undelivered mail To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Reply-To: Postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Message-Id: <01H2P7UWEPK2B12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (61 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:04:02 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de51e017718; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:58:55 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15493; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7JRB8YAB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (28 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:54:49 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de3a3017654; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:52:35 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15419; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Scott Wurcer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From Wed Sep 8 06:14:55 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15742; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:15:16 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (MAILER@MAINE) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2P89GGXHCB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:15:08 CDT Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@MAINE) by MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5459; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:14:55 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 10:14:55 -0400 From: RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.1d/1.7f) Subject: Undelivered mail To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Reply-To: Postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Message-Id: <01H2P89VQFIKB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (95 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:14:53 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de72f017824; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:07:43 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15701; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7UWEPK2B12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (61 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:04:02 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de51e017718; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:58:55 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15493; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7JRB8YAB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (28 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:54:49 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de3a3017654; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:52:35 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15419; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Scott Wurcer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From Wed Sep 8 06:27:49 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15976; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:27:58 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (MAILER@MAINE) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2P8PV2NXSB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:28:01 CDT Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@MAINE) by MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5682; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:27:49 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 10:27:49 -0400 From: RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.1d/1.7f) Subject: Undelivered mail To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Reply-To: Postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Message-Id: <01H2P8PV2XKYB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (129 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:27:47 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de9e7017991; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:19:19 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15779; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P89VQFIKB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (95 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:14:53 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de72f017824; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:07:43 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15701; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7UWEPK2B12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (61 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:04:02 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de51e017718; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:58:55 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15493; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7JRB8YAB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (28 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:54:49 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de3a3017654; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:52:35 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15419; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Scott Wurcer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From Wed Sep 8 06:36:32 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16225; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:36:36 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (MAILER@MAINE) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2P90C5JXCB12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:36:28 CDT Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@MAINE) by MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5833; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:36:32 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 10:36:32 -0400 From: RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.1d/1.7f) Subject: Undelivered mail To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Reply-To: Postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Message-Id: <01H2P90C5JXEB12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (163 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:36:31 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8dec9c018101; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:30:53 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16014; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P8PV2XKYB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (129 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:27:47 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de9e7017991; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:19:19 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15779; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P89VQFIKB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (95 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:14:53 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de72f017824; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:07:43 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15701; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7UWEPK2B12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (61 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:04:02 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de51e017718; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:58:55 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15493; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7JRB8YAB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (28 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:54:49 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de3a3017654; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:52:35 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15419; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Scott Wurcer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From CHARLEST@macc.wisc.edu Wed Sep 8 04:35:00 1993 Received: from vms2.macc.wisc.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16255; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:37:17 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from VMSmail by vms2.macc.wisc.edu; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:35 CDT Message-Id: <23090809354976@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:35 CDT From: Charles Thomas Subject: Bounce To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vms-To: image,CHARLEST Uht-oh. From Wed Sep 8 06:47:02 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16330; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:47:37 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (MAILER@MAINE) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2P9DTUZ8GB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:47:21 CDT Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@MAINE) by MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 5971; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:47:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 10:47:02 -0400 From: RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.1d/1.7f) Subject: Undelivered mail To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Reply-To: Postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Message-Id: <01H2P9DTUZ8IB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (197 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:47:01 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8deea8018179; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:39:37 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16270; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:38:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:38:57 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P90C5JXEB12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (163 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:36:31 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8dec9c018101; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:30:53 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16014; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P8PV2XKYB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (129 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:27:47 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de9e7017991; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:19:19 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15779; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P89VQFIKB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (95 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:14:53 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de72f017824; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:07:43 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15701; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7UWEPK2B12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (61 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:04:02 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de51e017718; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:58:55 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15493; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7JRB8YAB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (28 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:54:49 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de3a3017654; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:52:35 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15419; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Scott Wurcer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From Wed Sep 8 06:58:52 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16583; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:58:18 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (MAILER@MAINE) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2P9RSZBZKB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:58:37 CDT Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@MAINE) by MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 6180; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:58:52 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 10:58:52 -0400 From: RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.1d/1.7f) Subject: Undelivered mail To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Reply-To: Postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Message-Id: <01H2P9RSZBZMB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (23 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:58:51 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8df10c018308; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:49:48 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16345; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:49:17 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:49:17 -0500 Message-Id: <23090809354976@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Charles Thomas To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Bounce Uht-oh. From Wed Sep 8 07:05:06 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16706; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:05:13 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (MAILER@MAINE) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2PA0O7D8GB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:04:59 CDT Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@MAINE) by MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 6264; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 11:05:06 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 11:05:06 -0400 From: RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.1d/1.7f) Subject: Undelivered mail To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Reply-To: Postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Message-Id: <01H2PA0O7D8IB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (231 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 11:05:05 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8df2de018392; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:57:34 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16577; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:57:03 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:57:03 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P9DTUZ8IB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (197 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:47:01 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8deea8018179; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:39:37 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16270; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:38:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:38:57 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P90C5JXEB12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (163 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:36:31 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8dec9c018101; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:30:53 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16014; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P8PV2XKYB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (129 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:27:47 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de9e7017991; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:19:19 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15779; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P89VQFIKB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (95 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:14:53 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de72f017824; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:07:43 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15701; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7UWEPK2B12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (61 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:04:02 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de51e017718; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:58:55 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15493; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7JRB8YAB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (28 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:54:49 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de3a3017654; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:52:35 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15419; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Scott Wurcer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Wed Sep 8 06:13:48 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16819; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:10:01 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from DialupEudora (ANNEX1.NYU.EDU) by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H2PCABRIEO0009W8@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 11:10:04 EDT Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 11:13:48 -0500 From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff) Subject: Re: Bounce To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2PCACGFEA0009W8@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > >Uht-oh. > I sent a complaint to the postmaster of the offending machine, which is sending an error message to the reply-to address rather than the errors-to address. I don't know anything about the mailing list software, but how about a filter that says "do not ever accept for delivery to the list a message with the subject `Undelivered mail'"? Send comments etc. to postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU :-) Well, not everybody... From set@eru.mt.luth.se Wed Sep 8 18:27:54 1993 Received: from eru.mt.luth.se by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17078; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:27:43 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.240.1.176] (osse219.mt.luth.se) by eru.mt.luth.se with SMTP (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/IDA-1.2.8-NS) id AA25884; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 17:27:54 +0200 Message-Id: <199309081527.AA25884@eru.mt.luth.se> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 17:27:54 +0100 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg) Subject: Re: Expression 3.0b X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable >From: jbum@netcom.com (Jim Bumgardner) >Subject: Re: Expression 3.0b >To: set@mt.luth.se >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 93 17:25:19 PDT >X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] > >I just uploaded Expression to the ftp site at sumex-aim.stanford.edu > >You should be able to get it in a couple days. > >- Jim > > ********************************************************* * * * Sven-Erik Tiberg * * Div. of energy / mashineenginnering * * Lulea University of Technology * * Lulea Sweden * * email set@eru.mt.luth.se * * Fax. S-(0)920-91047 * * Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638 * * * ********************************************************* From Wed Sep 8 07:17:28 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17356; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:44:26 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (MAILER@MAINE) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2PAM6YQQOB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:23:56 CDT Received: from MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@MAINE) by MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 6539; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 11:17:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 11:17:28 -0400 From: RFC822 mailer (LMail release 1.1d/1.7f) Subject: Undelivered mail To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Reply-To: Postmaster@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Message-Id: <01H2PAO6MJ1YB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:" An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (56 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 11:17:26 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8df51d018543; W ed, 8 Sep 93 10:07:09 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16804; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:06:27 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:06:27 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P9RSZBZMB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (23 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:58:51 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8df10c018308; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:49:48 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16345; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:49:17 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:49:17 -0500 Message-Id: <23090809354976@vms2.macc.wisc.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Charles Thomas To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Bounce Uht-oh. From wayne@helix.nih.gov Wed Sep 8 11:25:17 1993 Received: from zippy.nimh.nih.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17899; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 11:27:40 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from pico.nimh.nih.gov by zippy.nimh.nih.gov (1.37.109.4/zippy-1.0) id AA08764; Wed, 8 Sep 93 11:45:02 -0400 Message-Id: <9309081545.AA08764@zippy.nimh.nih.gov> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 11:25:17 +0000 To: From: wayne@helix.nih.gov(Wayne Rasband) Subject: Re: Expression 3.0b Expression 3.0b is available by anonymous FTP from zippy.nimh.nih.gov, in the /pub/nih-image/plug-ins directory. Expression is a freeware filter plug-in written by Jim Bumgardner(jbum@aol.com) that creates images that change over time according to a mathematical formula. A macro('Make Expression Movie') for generating movies using Expression comes with NIH Image 1.52. --wayne From Wed Sep 8 19:02:39 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18493; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 12:13:59 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from HUEARN.BITNET (MAILER@HUEARN) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2PEH4AQY8B12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 12:12:47 CDT Received: from HUGBOX.BITNET (NJE origin MAILER@HUGBOX) by HUEARN.BITNET (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 6777; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 19:04:21 +0100 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 19:02:39 gmt+1 From: SITE delivery agent Subject: SITE delivery error To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2PEH4AQYAB12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Note: this message was generated automatically. The following error(s) occurred during local delivery of your message. Error delivering to user "": access violation, reason mask=!XB , virtual address=!XL, PC=!XL, PSL=!XL Message follows. Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by HUGBOX.SZTAKI.HU (MX V3.3 VAX) with SMTP; Wed, 08 Sep 1993 17:17:31 gmt+1 Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8df448018502; W ed, 8 Sep 93 10:03:36 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16611; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:03:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:03:01 -0500 Message-ID: <01H2P9DTUZ8IB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (197 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:47:01 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8deea8018179; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:39:37 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16270; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:38:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:38:57 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P90C5JXEB12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (163 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:36:31 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8dec9c018101; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:30:53 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16014; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P8PV2XKYB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (129 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:27:47 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de9e7017991; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:19:19 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15779; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P89VQFIKB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (95 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:14:53 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de72f017824; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:07:43 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15701; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7UWEPK2B12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (61 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:04:02 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de51e017718; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:58:55 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15493; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7JRB8YAB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (28 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:54:49 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de3a3017654; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:52:35 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15419; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Scott Wurcer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From Wed Sep 8 18:21:06 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18497; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 12:14:07 -0500 Return-Path: <> Received: from HUEARN.BITNET (MAILER@HUEARN) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2PEH4AQY8B12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 12:12:51 CDT Received: from HUGBOX.BITNET (NJE origin MAILER@HUGBOX) by HUEARN.BITNET (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 6546; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:32:32 +0100 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 18:21:06 gmt+1 From: SITE delivery agent Subject: SITE delivery error To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2PEH7LPD2B12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@SOILS.UMN.EDU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Note: this message was generated automatically. The following error(s) occurred during local delivery of your message. Error delivering to user "": access violation, reason mask=!XB , virtual address=!XL, PC=!XL, PSL=!XL Message follows. Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by HUGBOX.SZTAKI.HU (MX V3.3 VAX) with SMTP; Wed, 08 Sep 1993 18:13:43 gmt+1 Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8df975018789; W ed, 8 Sep 93 10:25:42 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17053; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:25:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 10:25:09 -0500 Message-ID: <01H2PA0O7D8IB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (231 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 11:05:05 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8df2de018392; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:57:34 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16577; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:57:03 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:57:03 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P9DTUZ8IB12T72@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (197 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:47:01 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8deea8018179; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:39:37 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16270; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:38:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:38:57 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P90C5JXEB12VK0@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (163 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:36:31 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8dec9c018101; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:30:53 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA16014; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:30:14 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P8PV2XKYB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------ Rejected message (129 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:27:47 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de9e7017991; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:19:19 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15779; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:18:45 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P89VQFIKB12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (95 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:14:53 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de72f017824; W ed, 8 Sep 93 09:07:43 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15701; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 09:07:01 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7UWEPK2B12KJE@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (61 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 10:04:02 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de51e017718; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:58:55 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15493; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:58:24 -0500 Message-Id: <01H2P7JRB8YAB12QSX@vx.cis.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: RFC822 mailer (LMail releas e 1.1d/1.7f) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Undelivered mail An error was detected while processing the enclosed message. A list of the affected recipients follows. This list is in a special format that allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes. --> Error description: Error-For: IO30199@MAINE.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Alias: IO30199@MAINE.BITNET Error-Code: 3 Error-Text: No such local user. Error-End: One error reported. ------------------------- Rejected message (28 lines) ------------------------- Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 08 Sep 93 09:54:49 EDT Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8de3a3017654; W ed, 8 Sep 93 08:52:35 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15419; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 08:52:01 -0500 Message-Id: <9309081347.AA01450@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: Scott Wurcer To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: DSP Development I saw a disturbing announcement that indicated that the AV development tools will cost big $$ and the ARTA init will need a special licence agreement for distribution. Does anyone have some info? --------------------------- Scott.Wurcer@analog.com | vox 617-937-1325 | fax 617-937-1017 | --------------------------- From LEYDON%BRUCE@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU Wed Sep 8 09:46:01 1993 Received: from BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA18978; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 12:45:41 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from DECNET-MAIL (LEYDON@BRUCE) by BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU (PMDF V4.2-11 #3847) id <01H2PHJIJXHS002T8A@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 13:46:01 EDT Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 13:46:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Internet LEYDON%BRUCE.DECNET@VENUS.YCC.YALE.EDU" Subject: Rotational registration of images? To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2PHJILJDE002T8A@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU> X-Vms-To: BIOMED::IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've been playing around with Image 1.51 and the image registration macro's and was wondering if there is a way to do rotational registration. If I have 2 brain sections and one is say rotated n degrees relative to the first one is there a way to regiser them ? I'd like to be able to do the blend paste and be able to rotate the selection area as well as move it left/right/up/down. Another way would be picking 3 or more points on both images and rotating/translating one to the other. Anyone have a macro for this or suggestions...I may dive in and add the code myself if not. thanks for any insight Gary Leydon BITNET LEYDON@YALEMED INTERNET LEYDON%BRUCE.DECNET@VENUS.YCC.YALE.EDU From Carl.Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu Wed Sep 8 10:04:57 1993 Received: from cbis.ece.drexel.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA19330; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 13:05:25 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from n1-5-225-ece-ipc.ece.drexel.edu by cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU (5.67/1.34) id AA12467; Wed, 8 Sep 93 14:04:57 EDT Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 14:04:57 EDT Message-Id: <9309081804.AA12467@cbis.ECE.Drexel.EDU> To: From: Carl.Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu (Carl Gustafson) X-Sender: cgustafs@CoE.Drexel.EDU Subject: Re: Rotational registration of images? > I've been playing around with Image 1.51 and the image registration >macro's and was wondering if there is a way to do rotational registration. >If I have 2 brain sections and one is say rotated n degrees relative to >the first one is there a way to regiser them ? I'd like to be able to do >the blend paste and be able to rotate the selection area as well as move >it left/right/up/down. Another way would be picking 3 or more points on >both images and rotating/translating one to the other. > Anyone have a macro for this or suggestions...I may dive in and >add the code myself if not. > >thanks for any insight >Gary Leydon >BITNET LEYDON@YALEMED >INTERNET LEYDON%BRUCE.DECNET@VENUS.YCC.YALE.EDU We have done this in our product, Brain for Macintosh. Alignment can be done based on either thresholds (density slices) or outlines, and uses second order moments to compute the elipses fitting the objects. You may want to send mail to either: Dr. Jonathan Nissanov or: Dr. Oleh Tretiak for details on Brain, and whether you can wangle code for this from them. Regards, Carl Gustafson =============================================================================== Imaging and Computer Vision Center | Macintosh Guy Drexel University | Software Guy Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | I only speak for myself ============================================================================ === From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Wed Sep 8 11:00:38 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21660; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 14:56:57 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from DialupEudora (ANNEX1.NYU.EDU) by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H2PMAXMKJ4000J9P@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 15:56:54 EDT Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 16:00:38 -0500 From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff) Subject: RE: Bounce To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu, owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2PMAYCTQQ000J9P@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu, owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> >> >>Uht-oh. >> >I sent a complaint to the postmaster of the offending machine, which is >sending an error message to the reply-to address rather than the errors-to >address. The postmaster replied stating that "errors-to" is not an official header. Also, his system is not using the "reply-to" header but rather either the "MAIL FROM" in the SMTP header (which is guess is the same as the "Return-path:" header I can see) or if there is none, then it would use the "Sender:" address. Unfortunately, both of these headers (Return-path: and Sender:) point to the mailing list. Maybe they shouldn't? Maybe Return-path and Sender should be owner-nih-image and reply-to should be the list? (But then some mail agent software might send replies to the wrong place?) It looks like the "Undelivered mail" message is still coming..., better fix it at this end. From casanova%emg2@emgmhs.mcg.edu Wed Sep 8 11:58:00 1993 Received: from emgmhs.mcg.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22671; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 16:02:11 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by emgmhs.mcg.edu from NetWare MHS, SMF-71 via XGATE 2.12 MHS to SMTP Gateway (XSMTP Module) Message-Id: <<3D1D42F781591B7@emgmhs.mcg.edu> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 16:58:00 EST From: Nathan DeVaughn To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: test message Return-Receipt-To: X-Mailer: XGATE 2.12 MHS/SMTP Gateway Just testing to see if my messages are getting thru. Thanks, Nathan From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Wed Sep 8 13:33:36 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23070; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 16:33:31 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04914; Wed, 8 Sep 93 17:33:41 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA18335; Wed, 8 Sep 93 17:33:36 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 17:33:36 -0400 Message-Id: <9309082133.AA18335@cascade.MIT.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Rotational registration Gary Leydon asks, > I've been playing around with Image 1.51 and the image registration > macro's and was wondering if there is a way to do rotational registration. > If I have 2 brain sections and one is say rotated n degrees relative to > the first one is there a way to regiser them ? I'd like to be able to do > the blend paste and be able to rotate the selection area as well as move > it left/right/up/down. Another way would be picking 3 or more points on > both images and rotating/translating one to the other. > Anyone have a macro for this or suggestions...I may dive in and > add the code myself if not. > > thanks for any insight > Gary Leydon > BITNET LEYDON@YALEMED > INTERNET LEYDON%BRUCE.DECNET@VENUS.YCC.YALE.EDU This is an easy problem to solve if you're willing to cheat, but O(n^3) expensive if you insist on doing it automatically in closed form. Quick'n'dirty: Select two or more points in common on both images. The translation-rotation matrix can be derived from any two ordered pairs of points. If you consider three or more points, scaling and other warping effects can be factored in. In the interest of algorithmic stability, you should warn the user if any ordered pairs yield a markedly different translation-rotation matrix from the others, since the situation probably indicates that the elements of the pair are not in fact identical. One of the images can be redrawn and the process iterated until you are satisfied with convergence. Automatic: Recall that the Fourier transform of two images will be identical, modulo a complex phase, if one image is identical to the other except for an (x,y) translational offset. There is an *amazing* set of orthonormal functions, called the Zernike polynomials, which have an analogous property with respect to rotation. The Zernike transforms of two images will be identical, modulo a complex phase, if one image is just the rotation of the other. To align two rotated pictures, you need to choose a common point of rotation (either by hand or automatic- ally), transform them both into Zernike space, and subtract the two first-order phase angles. That angle tells you the relative rotation in direct space, not just Zernike space. - David Salzman, Ph.D. From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Wed Sep 8 11:50:28 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23454; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 16:51:45 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA16957; Wed, 8 Sep 93 16:50:28 CDT Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 16:50:28 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9309082150.AA16957@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited OK, I've finally decided that the hassles we've been seeing with mail bouncing back to the list (and some other things you may or may not have noticed) are worth the risk of switching the list management software over to a relatively untried newer version. I do not take this step lightly, but the main distribution of the software has been running happily for some months on other lists, and I believe I have a clean port to the soils.umn.edu NeXTSTEP 2.1 environment. At this time, I am not cutting NIH-IMAGE service over to the new system, but I will need to be taking the list off-line for periods of time while I test the new software. Please be patient if you don't receive replies from the listserv address or the mailing list for a few hours. I will try to do most of the testing during US off-hours (locally defined as 2200-1300 GMT), as most of our list membership appears to be in the US time zones. I expect that testing will take a few days, with the cutover no earlier than this coming weekend, 11-12 September. I will post further information about the specific enhancements, features, and changes in user-visible commands and other interaction as I figure out which of the new features I want to enable. The administrative account will be changing its name from LISTSERV to LISTPROC, for political reasons which are not germane to the business of this group. The LISTSERV name will continue to be honored for the foreseeable future, but you'll notice that all the help files refer to the system as Unix-Listproc or Listprocessor. NOTE - One new feature is of general interest to the list membership: Currently, replies to messages which come from the list are directed back to the list itself, not to the originator of the message. This is a configurable item in the new software. If anyone has a strong preference about this feature, please feel free to state your case. Public discussion might very well be appropriate here. I'll abide by whatever consensus arises, or whoever has the most thoughtfully and helpfully worded arguments :-) The tradeoffs appear to be as follows: Replies defaulting to the list tends to foster public discourse on a topic, but may result in significant "topic drift" over time, with little of public interest actually occurring in public discussion. Replies going back to the sender helps immediate feedback for a person posting "help me" type queries to the list, and tends to damp down flames and aimless replies. It may also tend to quash the problem of bounced mail going back to the list and irritating a *lot* of people. :-) Seed Comment (your mileage may vary): Topic drift hasn't been a problem here (IMHO), and the new software should be significantly smarter about what is a bounced message than the old was. I'd keep the default the same, which is replies go back to the list, rather than only going to the original poster. -jml Your humble list manager From herro001@maroon.tc.umn.edu Wed Sep 8 12:41:51 1993 Received: from maroon.tc.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24107; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 17:41:37 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309082241.AA24107@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from rash.med.umn.edu by maroon.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8e5faa026363; Wed, 8 Sep 93 17:41:49 -0500 From: "Mike Herron" Reply-To: "Mike Herron" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 17:41:51 -0500 In message <9309082150.AA16957@saturn.soils.umn.edu> writes: > Topic drift hasn't been a problem here (IMHO), and the new software > should be significantly smarter about what is a bounced message than > the old was. I'd keep the default the same, which is replies go > back to the list, rather than only going to the original poster. The bounce never annoyed me. I have always enjoyed the diversity of the responses. It will take me _awhile_ to figure out "Zernike space" but hey I'm here to learn :^) I vote to leave it as is. We always have the option to reply directly to the sender anyway. ______________________________________________ / Mike Herron, Uof MN, Dept. of Deramatology / / herro001@staff.tc.umn.edu / / 625-8935 Box 124 UMHC, Mpls MN 55455 / ______________________________________________ From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Wed Sep 8 13:37:47 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24770; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:39:08 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA17465; Wed, 8 Sep 93 18:37:47 CDT Date: Wed, 8 Sep 93 18:37:47 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9309082337.AA17465@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: mk@nwu.edu (M. Khokha) Cc: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - public comment invited In-Reply-To: M. Khokha's message <9309082310.AA06593@merle.acns.nwu.edu> of 8 September 1993 References: <9309082310.AA06593@merle.acns.nwu.edu> OK, since we're talking about list issues, let's see if anyone has anything to say about this. If anyone (who knows what's involved, REALLY) wanted to volunteer to organize a RFD/CFV process and get things up to voting, I can gateway the NIH-Image traffic into Usenet news using the current (and proposed :-) list management software. I don't necessarily think it's crucial, but it might open up the discussions a bit and spread the word about NIH-Image to a wider audience. M. Khokha opens *another* can of worms on 8 September 1993 at 18:10:36 -0600 > All of these *1* are tough problems I think. Is there any way that > USENET might become a possibility for this very useful forum. It > may solve a lot of problems although perhaps not everyone has > access? An alternate transport like Usenet news doesn't solve any of the problems restated in footnote *1* below, and probably exacerbates them, since it becomes a wide-open forum, rather than a demonstrably interested membership. Currently, you have to subscribe to see messages and post, with Usenet distribution, anyone who wants to chip in, can. Doesn't mean that it'll necessarily degrade the signal, but it could. Access is also a problem; Usenet is not as widely distributed as email is; you can push email a lot of places (like compuserve, prodigy, and genie - not to mention various parts of the federal government) where Usenet doesn't (and probably won't) go. Usenet also doesn't allow for user file requests (which this mail list processor does), and traffic archiving is a bit problematic (at least locally -- which is what counts right now), whereas it's a supported side-effect of the current mail-based system. Don't get me wrong, I think Usenet's wonderful, and use it a lot, but it isn't the be-all and end-all. > I find that with NewsWatcher from John Norstad at Northwestern > University USENET becomes very easy to use and avoids many of the > above mentioned problems. I would think that everyone is working > off the Mac if they are using NIH-Image so NewsWatcher would be > applicable but perhaps not. Any thoughts on this? Well, any newsreader worth a damn has killfiles for selection and deletion, which helps. And the better ones have true threading, which does really make it easy to trim drifting topics out. I am assuming from your endorsement that Newswatcher must be worth at least a damn. :-) Please understand that I don't actually *use* a Mac for much of anything other than NIH-Image, and that not as often as I'd like. I'll worry about running a vote for newsgroup status *after* I get the new mail-based system working (curse, grumble, hack hack hack - *always* look a gift computer in the mouth). Thanks for your input, though. You're the third person so far to bring up the possibility of newsgroup status (yes, I've been keeping track), so I'm a little closer to talking seriously about either discussing it in alt.config, with an eye toward establishing alt.nih-image, or going through the full discussion/charter/vote process and trying to get comp.soft-sys.nih-image. Of course, if someone qualified steps forward... Considering we have < 350 list recipients, I'm not sure we could make the majority of 100 votes unless a higher-than-usual percentage of our membership (or others) expressed a favorable opinion during the voting process. -jml *1* > >The tradeoffs appear to be as follows: > > > > Replies defaulting to the list tends to foster public discourse on a > > topic, but may result in significant "topic drift" over time, with > > little of public interest actually occurring in public discussion. > > > > Replies going back to the sender helps immediate feedback for a > > person posting "help me" type queries to the list, and tends to > > damp down flames and aimless replies. It may also tend to quash the > > problem of bounced mail going back to the list and irritating a > > *lot* of people. :-) > > > >Seed Comment (your mileage may vary): > > > > Topic drift hasn't been a problem here (IMHO), and the new software > > should be significantly smarter about what is a bounced message than > > the old was. I'd keep the default the same, which is replies go > > back to the list, rather than only going to the original poster. > From reinking@CCIT.Arizona.EDU Wed Sep 8 09:40:38 1993 Received: from Arizona.edu (Osprey.Telcom.Arizona.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24788; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:40:34 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.196.252.103] (Racer.Tucson.AZ.US) by Arizona.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2381) id <01H2PNT456B49EJXYZ@Arizona.edu>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 16:40:38 MST Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 16:40:38 -0700 (MST) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by Arizona.edu From: reinking@CCIT.Arizona.EDU (Robert M. Reinking) Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2PNT4RY5E9EJXYZ@Arizona.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >stuff deleted helpfully worded arguments :-) > >The tradeoffs appear to be as follows: > > Replies defaulting to the list tends to foster public discourse on a > topic, but may result in significant "topic drift" over time, with > little of public interest actually occurring in public discussion. > > Replies going back to the sender helps immediate feedback for a > person posting "help me" type queries to the list, and tends to > damp down flames and aimless replies. It may also tend to quash the > problem of bounced mail going back to the list and irritating a > *lot* of people. :-) > >more stuff deleted > > -jml Your humble list manager I subscribed to the NIH Image Distribution List to try to learn something about NIH Image and other packages used for image processing. Thus, it is important for me to see ALL the correspondence. I "vote" for the reply-to-list option. Thanks for your effort in maintaining the list. Bob Reinking From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu Thu Sep 9 00:18:32 1993 Received: from Sdsc.Edu (sds.sdsc.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA25214; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 19:18:25 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 00:18:32 GMT From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten) Message-Id: <930909001832.2021708a@sds.sdsc.edu> Subject: RE: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH I prefer: " Replies defaulting to the list tends to foster public discourse on a topic" and would vote to continue this, as long as you can keep the number of bounced "undeliverable mail" items to a reasonable level. I elarn a great deal by seeing the interchange, particularly if I feel too dumb to actually participate. Harvey Karten From tim_devoogd@qmrelay.mail.cornell.edu Wed Sep 8 16:38:34 1993 Received: from ROUTER.MAIL.CORNELL.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA25390; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 19:28:07 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from qmrelay.mail.cornell.edu ([128.253.9.29]) by router.mail.cornell.edu with SMTP id <577109-2>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 20:28:43 -0400 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 20:38:34 -0400 From: "tim devoogd" Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a war To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <93Sep8.202843edt.577109-2@router.mail.cornell.edu> Reply to: RE>LISTSERV upgrade - a warnin Definitely have replies to the list go to all. It's already usually possible to determine an address and direct replies to an individual if it is appropriate. For myself, I find enough useful information in the interchanges that I'm not bothered by reading the other messages. -------------------------------------- Date: 9/8/93 6:25 PM To: tim devoogd From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Received: by qmrelay.mail.cornell.edu with SMTP;8 Sep 1993 18:25:30 -0400 Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu ([128.101.131.1]) by router.mail.cornell.edu with SMTP id <577072-2>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 18:21:54 -0400 Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8e5459023364; Wed, 8 Sep 93 16:53:29 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23499; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 16:52:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1993 17:52:45 -0400 Message-Id: <9309082150.AA16957@saturn.soils.umn.edu> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: "John Ladwig" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited OK, I've finally decided that the hassles we've been seeing with mail bouncing back to the list (and some other things you may or may not have noticed) are worth the risk of switching the list management software over to a relatively untried newer version. I do not take this step lightly, but the main distribution of the software has been running happily for some months on other lists, and I believe I have a clean port to the soils.umn.edu NeXTSTEP 2.1 environment. At this time, I am not cutting NIH-IMAGE service over to the new system, but I will need to be taking the list off-line for periods of time while I test the new software. Please be patient if you don't receive replies from the listserv address or the mailing list for a few hours. I will try to do most of the testing during US off-hours (locally defined as 2200-1300 GMT), as most of our list membership appears to be in the US time zones. I expect that testing will take a few days, with the cutover no earlier than this coming weekend, 11-12 September. I will post further information about the specific enhancements, features, and changes in user-visible commands and other interaction as I figure out which of the new features I want to enable. The administrative account will be changing its name from LISTSERV to LISTPROC, for political reasons which are not germane to the business of this group. The LISTSERV name will continue to be honored for the foreseeable future, but you'll notice that all the help files refer to the system as Unix-Listproc or Listprocessor. NOTE - One new feature is of general interest to the list membership: Currently, replies to messages which come from the list are directed back to the list itself, not to the originator of the message. This is a configurable item in the new software. If anyone has a strong preference about this feature, please feel free to state your case. Public discussion might very well be appropriate here. I'll abide by whatever consensus arises, or whoever has the most thoughtfully and helpfully worded arguments :-) The tradeoffs appear to be as follows: Replies defaulting to the list tends to foster public discourse on a topic, but may result in significant "topic drift" over time, with little of public interest actually occurring in public discussion. Replies going back to the sender helps immediate feedback for a person posting "help me" type queries to the list, and tends to damp down flames and aimless replies. It may also tend to quash the problem of bounced mail going back to the list and irritating a *lot* of people. :-) Seed Comment (your mileage may vary): Topic drift hasn't been a problem here (IMHO), and the new software should be significantly smarter about what is a bounced message than the old was. I'd keep the default the same, which is replies go back to the list, rather than only going to the original poster. -jml Your humble list manager From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Wed Sep 8 17:26:31 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA27335; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 21:22:39 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from DialupEudora (ANNEX1.NYU.EDU) by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H2PZRD75WW000KM7@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Wed, 8 Sep 1993 22:22:46 EDT Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1993 22:26:31 -0500 From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff) Subject: RE: LISTSERV upgrade - public comment invited To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2PZRDWM6Q000KM7@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >OK, since we're talking about list issues, let's see if anyone has >anything to say about this. If anyone (who knows what's involved, >REALLY) wanted to volunteer to organize a RFD/CFV process and get >things up to voting, I can gateway the NIH-Image traffic into Usenet >news using the current (and proposed :-) list management software. > >I don't necessarily think it's crucial, but it might open up the >discussions a bit and spread the word about NIH-Image to a wider >audience. > A Usenet newsgroup devoted solely to NIH-Image would never pass muster in news.groups. Getting comp.sys.mac.scitech was difficult enough. If you would like to make a (one way, mail to news) gateway, simply discuss it in the target group, which would be either sci.image.processing or comp.sys.mac.scitech. If not too many people object, then just gate the articles. (Assuming the members of this list agree...) A two way gateway would not be suitable, since the newsgroups discuss things other than NIH-Image. Gating bounced mail to Usenet would be a serious faux pas. :-) The gateway should add a line about "gated from nih-image mailing list" and maybe add "NIH-Image" to the subject? From set@eru.mt.luth.se Thu Sep 9 11:33:37 1993 Received: from eru.mt.luth.se by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00826; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 03:33:26 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.240.1.176] (osse219.mt.luth.se) by eru.mt.luth.se with SMTP (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/IDA-1.2.8-NS) id AA12355; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 10:33:36 +0200 Message-Id: <199309090833.AA12355@eru.mt.luth.se> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 10:33:37 +0100 To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg) Subject: High 8 vs. S-VHS X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable Does anybody has any comments or experiences with High 8 versus S-VHS Videorecorder. We will will get one and need advise. We will also get a Panasonic WV-F15HS and has a Scion LC3 card. The most important are high S/N ratio on frozen images. Another important demand on the videorecorder are: at recording: to record exactly one image, step ONE frame forward on the tape, and record next image. The tape recorder should also been controlled by RS-232. Our current suggestion are Panasonic AG6730 and NV-FS200 and we are planning to purchase both this week toghter with the camera. -- Yours Sincearly --- ********************************************************* * * * Sven-Erik Tiberg * * Div. of energy / mashineenginnering * * Lulea University of Technology * * Lulea Sweden * * email set@eru.mt.luth.se * * Fax. S-(0)920-91047 * * Tel. S-(0)920-91218, S-(0)10-2189638 * * * ********************************************************* From brett@whamserver.surg.umn.edu Thu Sep 9 03:49:36 1993 Received: from mail.unet.umn.edu (mailhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA03924; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 08:49:24 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.101.173.112] by mail.unet.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13603; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 08:49:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 08:49:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199309091349.AA13603@mail.unet.umn.edu> From: "Brett Levay-Young" Reply-To: "Brett Levay-Young" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited >Stuff deleted > > Currently, replies to messages which come from the list are directed > back to the list itself, not to the originator of the message. This > is a configurable item in the new software. If anyone has a strong > preference about this feature, please feel free to state your case. > Public discussion might very well be appropriate here. I'll abide by > whatever consensus arises, or whoever has the most thoughtfully and > helpfully worded arguments :-) > As a new user of Image, and also new to this list, I find the continuing discussion of (more or less) Image related material *very* useful, even the program hacking stuff which I barely understand. Count this as a vote to leave things as they are. Thanks - Brett """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Brett Levay-Young, Ph.D. brett@whamserver.surg.umn.edu Department of Surgery Phone: 612-624-3185 University of Minnesota Fax: 612-624-8909 Box 120 UMHC Minneapolis, MN 55455 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" From cammer@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu Thu Sep 9 05:47:50 1993 Received: from alsys1.aecom.yu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04151; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 08:54:17 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by alsys1.aecom.yu.edu id AA20604 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4/AECOM-RIT for nih-image@soils.umn.edu); Thu, 9 Sep 1993 09:54:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 09:47:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Cammer Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: <9309082150.AA16957@saturn.soils.umn.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > is a configurable item in the new software. If anyone has a strong > preference about this feature, please feel free to state your case. > Public discussion might very well be appropriate here. Most discussions begin with requests, which are merely queries, or observations. These often do not contain much useful information. Answers and replies, which are typically posted to the list and, therefore, to all of us, are interesting and informative. These replies to the list are what makes the list useful. We have learned a lot about the capabilities of NIH Image by scanning through many messages-- even by scanning through the ones not directly applicable to our applications. -Michael From casanova%emg2@emgmhs.mcg.edu Thu Sep 9 05:12:00 1993 Received: from emgmhs.mcg.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04397; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 09:11:52 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by emgmhs.mcg.edu from NetWare MHS, SMF-71 via XGATE 2.12 MHS to SMTP Gateway (XSMTP Module) Message-Id: <<191F42F781591B7@emgmhs.mcg.edu> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 10:12:00 EST From: Nathan DeVaughn To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: my ignorance Return-Receipt-To: X-Mailer: XGATE 2.12 MHS/SMTP Gateway The horizon of my ignorance continues to recede. Would someone point me toward sources which might educate me on the following recently mentioned topics: Zernike polynomials UseNet comp.sys.mac.scitech sci.image.processing RFD/CFV process Thanks, Nathan Nathan M. DeVaughn The Medical College of Georgia Department of Psychiatry & Health Behavior Neuropathology/Neuroimaging Research Downtown VA Medical Center Floor 6 Wing B Room 121 116A Psychiatry Service Augusta, Georgia 30901 706.733.0188x2641 voice 706.823.3970 fax casanova@emgmhs.mcg.edu From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Thu Sep 9 04:29:33 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04665; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 09:30:51 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA19015; Thu, 9 Sep 93 09:29:33 CDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 09:29:33 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9309091429.AA19015@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited In-Reply-To: Michael Cammer's message of 9 September 1993 References: Michael Cammer writes on 9 September 1993 at 09:00:19 -0500 > [ reply-to-list, versus reply-to-sender] is a configurable item in > > the new software. If anyone has a strong preference about this > > feature, please feel free to state your case. Public discussion > > might very well be appropriate here. > > Answers and replies, which are typically posted to the list and, > therefore, to all of us, are interesting and informative. These > replies to the list are what makes the list useful. OK, does anyone *not* like the current behavior? If so, send mail directly to me at owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu and I'll mull it over. Looks pretty unanimous so far. BTW - status report on the new software - It got ported last night, at least to a first approximation, and I ran it for a few hours. So far, it has passed all the initial tests with local subscribers. I will probably bring up the new system this weekend (say, Friday night) if all goes well. Notable Changes: Message archiving will be *much* nicer - I think I'll have it set to generate monthly archives, and the contents of each archive are automatically made available by mail request to the list processor (the address you (un)subscribe at). Gopher availability will not change as a result of the new system, although the archives themselves will tend to be smaller and have more descriptive names like "Nih-image.9309" or "Nih-image.93-Sep" Since I'm mucking around with it, there will probably be a shorter path to the NIH-Image archives and searches from the top level of our gopher. The old postitions will remain, but there'll be *another* way to get to them. Spiff. From AF26@ac.dal.ca Thu Sep 9 08:41:49 1993 Received: from AC.Dal.Ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04874; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 09:41:40 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from AC.DAL.CA by AC.DAL.CA (PMDF V4.2-13 #2545) id <01H2QRKIG8MI00LR1H@AC.DAL.CA>; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 11:41:49 -0300 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1993 11:41:49 -0300 From: AF26@ac.dal.ca Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2QRKIG8MK00LR1H@AC.DAL.CA> X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Please register my vote for replies defaulting to list. This public forum is a valuable resource. "Topic drift," as you phrase it, has not been a serious problem, and tends to be self-limiting. The educational value of the public discourse should outweight such concerns. Alan Fine From RAND@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU Thu Sep 9 06:46:00 1993 Received: from BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA04939; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 09:45:43 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU by BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU (PMDF V4.2-11 #3847) id <01H2QPND18K0002O77@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU>; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 10:46:00 EDT Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1993 10:46:00 -0400 (EDT) From: RAND@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU Subject: Mac to videotape To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2QPND1RUA002O77@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU> X-Vms-To: IN%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have several questions about transferring animated sequences made in Image to videotape. From what I understand, it is usually necessary to use a time-base corrector (TBC, ~$2000) to synch the signal properly from the computer to the VCR. However, there are also several consumer video signal processors available for the Mac which range in price from $300-$2000. The RasterOps board uses some type of anti-aliasing to eliminate flicker in the image; less expensive products simply claim to be able to transfer Mac video output to tape. 1) Is the signal quality using a TBC superior to that of the high- end specialty products available for the Mac? Are there other advantages of using these products (e.g., software for titling, sequencing of presentations, etc.)? 2) I don't expect miracles from a $300 video signal processor, but I'd like to know if anyone has found something that works well for reasonable cost. I need 8-bit color output, by the way. 3) Scion makes a video board (model TV-3) which, according to Scion, is "supported by a version of the popular public domain image analysis package 'Image'... [that] allows the outputting of images with the TV-3." Does this mean that the bundled version of Image has special features that take advantage of the board? Answers/general comments are greatly appreciated. P.S. I like the listserver as it is. Mark Rand, Ph.D. Yale Neuroscience Research Center V.A.M.C. (127A), West Haven, CT 06516 rand@biomed.med.yale.edu From sam@cns.nyu.edu Thu Sep 9 06:55:12 1993 Received: from cmcl2.NYU.EDU (NYU.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA05094; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 09:54:53 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from WOTAN.CNS.NYU.EDU by cmcl2.NYU.EDU (5.61/1.34) id AA02590; Thu, 9 Sep 93 10:55:00 -0400 Received: from pong.cns.nyu.edu by wotan.cns.nyu.edu (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA14609; Thu, 9 Sep 93 10:55:57 EDT Message-Id: <9309091455.AA14609@wotan.cns.nyu.edu> From: sam@cns.nyu.edu (Sam Feldman) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 10:55:12 EDT X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.1.3 9/24/90 (beta)) To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Illuminators I will welcome advice on purchasing an illuminator for use with digitization of rat brain autoradiograms. Two that have been recommended are the Aristo V810-D (Aristo, Ft. Washington, NY) and the TrueLite 100 (NAL Consulting, Davis, CA). Has anyone had experience with these? Are other, better illuminators available? I will be using a Dage-72 camera and the frame-grabbing hardware/software package that is part of an Inovision (Durham,NC) Imaging System. At present, the there is no hardware/software for controlling the illuminator power supply, although the Inovision Imaging system can provide such a facility for an additionala $2,000 or so. Much of my 2-D imaging work will utilize NIH-Image on a Macintosh fx. 3-D work will utilize VoxelView running on an SGI Crimson. Sam Feldman Center for Neural Science New York University New York, NY 10003 From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com Thu Sep 9 10:20:39 1993 Received: from nova (sarnoff.com) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA05466; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 10:20:39 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from maca.sarnoff.com by nova (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA25189; Thu, 9 Sep 93 11:20:41 EDT Message-Id: <9309091520.AA25189@nova> Date: 9 Sep 1993 11:23:18 U From: "Norm Hurst" Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a wa To: "John Ladwig NIH list admin" , nih-image@soils.umn.edu RE>>LISTSERV upgrade - a war John- I would like to see the real name of the sender ("From:") appear in the "Who" column of my mail application instead of "nih-image@soils.umn.edu". For instance, messages from wayne would be apparent from the list of messages. Another industry net met this request when they went with LISTSERV -- the list admin (Scott) said it a "simple matter of some C hacking". He can be reached at nomad@farnsworth.mit.edu for info on how he did it. Norm Hurst 609-734-2925 From kartenh@Sdsc.Edu Thu Sep 9 15:25:39 1993 Received: from Sdsc.Edu (m5.sdsc.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA05475; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 10:25:48 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 15:25:39 GMT From: kartenh@Sdsc.Edu (Harvey Karten) Message-Id: <930909152539.204021b9@m5.sdsc.edu> Subject: RE: High 8 vs. S-VHS To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" X-St-Vmsmail-Cc: KARTENH To Sven-Erik Tiberg - I suggest that you contact Joe Ayers at Northeastern Univ. in Boston. He occasionally sends postings to this bulletin board. He recently showed me the new, and relatively inexpensive, SONY digital High 8 recorder. The freeze frame capability and quality of images was excellent. He may have directly compared the S-VHS and the Digital High 8. H. Karten Harvey J. Karten, M.D. Dept. Neurosciences UCSD 0608 La Jolla, CA 92093 Phone (619)-534-4938 FAX (619)-534-6602 E-Mail KARTENH@SDSC.EDU Harvey J. Karten, M.D. Dept. Neurosciences UCSD 0608 La Jolla, CA 92093 Phone (619)-534-4938 FAX (619)-534-6602 E-Mail KARTENH@SDSC.EDU From tg3@u.washington.edu Thu Sep 9 02:07:39 1993 Received: from stein1.u.washington.edu (stein.u.washington.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA05961; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 11:09:32 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by stein1.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA15410; Thu, 9 Sep 93 09:09:45 -0700 X-Sender: tg3@stein1.u.washington.edu Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 09:07:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Thurman Gillespy Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - public comment invited To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: <9309082337.AA17465@saturn.soils.umn.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii I vote that we NOT go to a USENET format. I like having this discussion group show up in my email account. Cheers, Thurman Gillespy tg3@u.washington.edu From kyzy@rice.edu Thu Sep 9 06:15:14 1993 Received: from moe.rice.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA05988; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 11:15:04 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.42.105.7] (erinna.rice.edu) by moe.rice.edu (AA19644); Thu, 9 Sep 93 11:15:14 CDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 11:15:14 CDT Message-Id: <9309091615.AA19644@moe.rice.edu> To: From: kyzy@rice.edu Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited I vote to leave replies defaulting to list. Most e-mail packages (I use Eudora) allow you to quickly scan and delete messages. I have not found the undeliverable mail problems to be that bothersome (even when the avalanche hit the list last July...) This is a small and pretty "focused" list. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Prof. Kyriacos Zygourakis | Phone: (713) 527-8750 Ext. 3509 Dept. of Chemical Engineering | FAX: (713) 285-5478 Rice University | e-mail: kyzy@rice.edu Houston, Texas 77251-1892 | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From RBLYSTON@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU Thu Sep 9 06:14:46 1993 Received: from vm1.tucc.trinity.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA06151; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 11:25:17 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309091625.AA06151@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from VM1.tucc.trinity.edu by VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 7186; Thu, 09 Sep 93 11:24:57 CDT Received: from TRINITY.EDU (RBLYSTON) by VM1.tucc.trinity.edu (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 1035; Thu, 09 Sep 93 11:24:54 CDT Date: Thu, 09 Sep 93 11:14:46 CDT From: Robert Blystone Subject: More on hot spot scrubbing To: NIH Image list Thanks to the several who responded to my querry about removing microscope hotspots and flaws from a color image. The current approach listed below almost works. 1. Capture the color image 2. Capture a color blank screen at about 120 gray scale. 3. Take both images to Photoshop and change to RGB and then to multichannel 4. Perform a subtraction for each channel and then glue the image back together with RGB and go back into indexed color. This approach works reasonably with one exception. I have pixels that drop out as black on the reconstructed image when viewed again in NIH-Image. Floundering a bit, I discovered that some of my saved blank color screens did not reveal the full color palette, there was some clipping at the black end of the scale. I played with the light level but in several cases could not get a full 256 palette. It is those images reconstructed with these partial palettes (about 20 clipped pixels) that give me the black pixel noise. Suggestions??? as I try to get hotspot scrubbed images. Parenthetically: Keep the list as is even with its problems. And thanks. Blystone in Texas ********************** ROBERT V. BLYSTONE PHONE:(210)736-7243 DEPARTMENT OF BIOLOGY FAX:(210)736-7229 Trinity University E-Mail:RBlyston@Trinity.edu 715 Stadium Drive San Antonio, TX, 78212 From morilak@cmgm.stanford.edu Thu Sep 9 03:05:39 1993 Received: from cmgm.Stanford.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA06598; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 12:02:06 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from (P159-macplus.Stanford.EDU) by cmgm.stanford.edu (4.1/1.34) id AA27556; Thu, 9 Sep 93 10:02:17 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 10:05:39 PDT From: YOUR NAME HERE Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a warning, with public comment invited To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 8 Sep 1993 16:54:10 -0500 Message-Id: I too vote for return-to-list for most of the reasons already stated, mainly the value of eavesdropping in on discussions of interest, but about which I am too inexperienced (ie ignorant) to contribute. Thanks for the effort, this has been of immense value to me and my science. PS - Sorry about the header from "YOUR NAME HERE". I work off of a common lab machine, and by consensus, nobodies name goes here! David Morilak Dept Psychiatry Stanford Univ ------- From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Thu Sep 9 08:08:00 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA06610; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 12:04:23 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from DialupEudora (ANNEX1.NYU.EDU) by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H2QUK9GP40000N60@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 13:04:16 EDT Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1993 13:08:00 -0500 From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff) Subject: Re: my ignorance To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2QUKABIAQ000N60@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >The horizon of my ignorance continues to recede. >Would someone point me toward sources which might >educate me on the following recently mentioned >topics: > Zernike polynomials > UseNet > comp.sys.mac.scitech > sci.image.processing > RFD/CFV process For Zernike polynomials, try searching the sci.image.processing archive. To find out how to access it, anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu directory /pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/sci/image/processing For usenet, anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu directory /pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/news/announce/newusers. If you cannot use anonymous FTP, then send e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with "help" in the body. From jans0015@gold.tc.umn.edu Thu Sep 9 07:39:51 1993 Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu (gold1.tc.umn.edu) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA07204; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 12:39:37 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309091739.AA07204@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from [134.84.222.117] by gold.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8f6a3aa09829; Thu, 9 Sep 93 12:39:24 -0500 From: "Elizabeth M. Jansen" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 12:39:51 -0500 > Please register my vote for replies defaulting to list. This public > forum is a valuable resource. "Topic drift," as you phrase it, has not > been a serious problem, and tends to be self-limiting. The educational > value of the public discourse should outweight such concerns. Alan Fine I second Alan's sentiments. Liz Jansen From norm_hurst@maca.sarnoff.com Thu Sep 9 13:31:52 1993 Received: from nova (sarnoff.com) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08039; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 13:31:52 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from maca.sarnoff.com by nova (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA00100; Thu, 9 Sep 93 14:31:54 EDT Message-Id: <9309091831.AA00100@nova> Date: 9 Sep 1993 14:15:41 U From: "Norm Hurst" Subject: Re: Mac to videotape To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu RE>Mac to videotape I have NO experience recording Mac output to tape, but the Mac's output should not have time-base instability. TIme-base instability is an artifact of the mechanics of the tape machine's PLAYBACK, and is not an issue when recording. Time-base error becomes a problem when digitizing (VCR-to-Mac). TBC's, however, often do much more than time base correction, including such functions as sync replacement and DC clamping. Replacing sync with real RS-170A sync is important when interfacing to professional VCR's, but comsumer VCR tend to be quite forgiving. -Norm Hurst David Sarnoff Research Center From RBLYSTON@VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU Thu Sep 9 09:14:25 1993 Received: from vm1.tucc.trinity.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08770; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 14:20:41 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309091920.AA08770@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from VM1.tucc.trinity.edu by VM1.TUCC.TRINITY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with BSMTP id 7347; Thu, 09 Sep 93 14:20:23 CDT Received: from TRINITY.EDU (RBLYSTON) by VM1.tucc.trinity.edu (Mailer R2.10 ptf000) with BSMTP id 1838; Thu, 09 Sep 93 14:20:21 CDT Date: Thu, 09 Sep 93 14:14:25 CDT From: Robert Blystone Subject: Re: Mac to videotape To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 9 Sep 1993 10:00:19 -0500 from In response to Mark Rand's question. We have used a $400 solution for RGB to NTSC transfer... the RasterOps video ex pander. It works OK but it has trouble with single pixel lines. We then moved to the Radius VideoVision Board, a $2000 solution. It works quit e well. It uses some software trickery to get rid of the single line flicker. This solution does degrade the signal from what might be considered a commercia l level. It is however a nice and relatively inexpensive solution. The time base correctors comein at $10,000 or so. These devices can give "commercial" grade output. We have been happy with the Radius solution except they have never put out the accelerators to go on their early board. They are now selling a newer board that is said to be quite good. This have been our experience. A note. We usually pass our NIH Image output into Adobe Premiere so we can label the segments for archiving directly on the video. Blystone in Texas ********************** ROBERT V. BLYSTONE PHONE:(210)736-7243 DEPARTMENT OF BIOLOGY FAX:(210)736-7229 Trinity University E-Mail:RBlyston@Trinity.edu 715 Stadium Drive San Antonio, TX, 78212 From kyzy@rice.edu Thu Sep 9 10:20:11 1993 Received: from moe.rice.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09454; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 15:20:03 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [128.42.105.7] (erinna.rice.edu) by moe.rice.edu (AA24952); Thu, 9 Sep 93 15:20:12 CDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 15:20:11 CDT Message-Id: <9309092020.AA24952@moe.rice.edu> To: From: kyzy@rice.edu Subject: Re: Mac to videotape >I have several questions about transferring animated >sequences made in Image to videotape. From what I >understand, it is usually necessary to use a time-base >corrector (TBC, ~$2000) to synch the signal properly from >the computer to the VCR. A TBC just cleans up the sync during playback (useful, for example, when you play back or digitize images from a time-lapse tape). The units I am familiar with will not convert RGB to NTSC video (Mac to VCR). ----- >However, there are also several consumer video signal processors available for >the Mac which range in price from $300-$2000. The RasterOps board uses >some type of anti-aliasing to eliminate flicker in the image; less expensive >>products simply claim to be able to transfer Mac video output to tape. You need a product that does convolution to eliminate the flickering. Otherwise, you cannot really view 1-pixel-wide lines or thin objects; they flicker too much. For example, you can't really view the Mac desktop or menus. With large objects, image quality is marginal to bad. We have used for some time a cheap NTSC output board to edit and insert titles in video tape segments. It did the job, but nothing to write home about. The new AV Quadras can produce flicker-free NTSC output, but I have not seen one yet. K. Zygourakis, Ph.D. Rice University kyzy@rice.edu From ZALUZEC@ANLEMC.MSD.ANL.GOV Thu Sep 9 10:39:24 1993 Received: from anlemc.msd.anl.gov by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA09832; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 15:40:36 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 15:39:24 -0500 (CDT) From: ZALUZEC@ANLEMC.MSD.ANL.GOV (Nestor J. Zaluzec (708)-252-5075, -4964) Message-Id: <930909153924.20202352@ANLEMC.MSD.ANL.GOV> Subject: Voting To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"nih-image@soils.umn.edu" Another vote to keep the listserv and NOT a newsgroup/USENET type system. I'll put up with the occasional problems. Nestor Zaluzec ANL EM Center From RHAWKES@mta.ca Thu Sep 9 13:52:53 1993 Received: from macc1.mta.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10117; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 16:02:38 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mta.ca ([138.73.70.2]) by macc1.mta.ca with SMTP; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 18:04:24 -0300 (ADT) Received: from APPLE (QM 2.5a) by mta.ca (SMTP\QM 1.1.1) id AA34361; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 18:03:01 -0400 Message-Id: <00139.2830442581.34361@mta.ca> Organization: Mount Allison University, Sackville, N.B. Canada E0A 3C0 X-Charset: MACINTOSH To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu (NIH Image Bulletin) From: RHAWKES@mta.ca (Robert Hawkes) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 17:52:53 -0400 Subject: Mac to VideoTape Subject: Time:17:50 OFFICE MEMO Mac to VideoTape Date:9/9/93 We have used a RasterOps Video Expander with both 24stv and 364 boards for a year or so. I have been somewhat disappointed. As someone else pointed out, the flicker in lines like at the top of windows is awful. The colour is very good, however, and S-VVHS, composite and RGB are all provided. We have looked into and are probably about to buy a VideoVision. It would appear that the VideoVision Studio option is what is really needed to do full frame rate full colour nice flicker free taping. I wish it was not so expensive. As I understand it (we are waiting for one on delivery) the A/V Mac Models can produce flicker-free output, but the convolution algorithm can only support up to 8 bit colour at full frame rate. Of course, for many of us on this list that will meet our needs. If you really have very little funds, simply pointing a camcorder at the Mac screen does not work all that badly. There is a free utility (called Camera Sync) which comes for the RasterOps Boards which allow you to do adjustments so that the aliasing is not a severe problem. Bob Hawkes Physics Engineering and Geology Dept. Mount Allison University Sackville, N.B. Canada E0A 3C0 rhawkes@mta.ca From geller@synapse.umdnj.edu Thu Sep 9 12:56:41 1993 Received: from synapse.UMDNJ.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10120; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 16:02:42 -0500 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 16:56:41 EDT From: "Herbert M. Geller" To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade Message-Id: <9309091656.aa05870@synapse.umdnj.edu> I also would like to retain replying to the list. The bounced messages have not been a big problem, and I think that following the discourse has been most informativ.e Herb Geller From vokey@hg.uleth.ca Thu Sep 9 09:08:29 1993 Received: from mr.uleth.ca by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA10311; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 16:08:08 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V3.3 VAX) id 3492; Thu, 09 Sep 1993 15:09:03 MDT Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1993 15:08:29 MDT From: vokey@hg.uleth.ca To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <009724AB.A4467EC0.3492@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: RE: Mac to videotape I use the L-TV board from Lapis technologies (versions are available for the LC series and any nubus-slotted Mac), and it works fine for NTSC or PAL output. It supports 16256 or 32768 colours for a 512 x 384 pixel display, and 16 or 256 colours at 640 x 480 pixel display. It allows the televison monitor (or vcr) to be used as either a second monitor or as the main display. The advantage of the former inter alia is that one can have the image to be captured displayed in a window on the televison monitor while the main windows etc. of the manipulation program (image, presumably ;-) ) displaying only on the main Mac monitor. The card comes with software to provide for various, quite effective, flicker filters. It is also remarkably inexpensive. Contact Lapis Technologies, Inc. Ph.: (510) 748-1600 From glenmac@u.washington.edu Thu Sep 9 09:56:43 1993 Received: from carson.u.washington.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA12113; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 18:57:32 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by carson.u.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA20452; Thu, 9 Sep 93 16:57:44 -0700 X-Sender: glenmac@carson.u.washington.edu Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 16:56:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Macdonald Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a war To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: Multiple recipients of list In-Reply-To: <93Sep8.202843edt.577109-2@router.mail.cornell.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=us-ascii Please keep the replies to the list. Lthat's what makes this so useful and interesting. -Glen From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Thu Sep 9 17:40:06 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13229; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 20:39:56 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04568; Thu, 9 Sep 93 21:40:07 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA28786; Thu, 9 Sep 93 21:40:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 21:40:06 -0400 Message-Id: <9309100140.AA28786@cascade.MIT.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Zernike transforms >Subject: RE:rotation/translations > >David, > thanks for replying to my message about rotating/translating images. >I was wondering if you could point me toward's a paper or two that described >the Zernike transforms. I'd really like some example source code demonstrating >this technique. > >thanks >Gary Leydon For an excellent mathematical treatment, take a look at Born, Max and Wolf, Emil, Principles of Optics, Pergamon Press (NY), 6th Edition, 1980. pp. 767-772 and pp. 464-466. Note that there is a misprint on p. 768, where equation (9) should instead read l l a = A / 2 pi n n The factors for the first few Zernike coefficients are listed on p. 465. From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Thu Sep 9 17:58:29 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13430; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 20:58:19 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA05537; Thu, 9 Sep 93 21:58:30 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA28910; Thu, 9 Sep 93 21:58:29 -0400 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 93 21:58:29 -0400 Message-Id: <9309100158.AA28910@cascade.MIT.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade Register another vote for a Usenet newsgroup. The messages can still be broadcast to those of you who don't mind wading through dozens of E_Mail postings per day, but in the absence of a Usenet group, no alternative is offered to those of us who would rather deal with mail as mail and special interest groups as something else. - David Salzman, Ph.D. From grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU Thu Sep 9 14:56:51 1993 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA15287; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 23:55:52 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by itsa.ucsf.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/GSC4.22) id AA54889; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 21:56:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 21:56:51 -0700 From: grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU (Gerald Cunha) Message-Id: <9309100456.AA54889@itsa.ucsf.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Stereo Viewer Review Thanks to all the replies to my question about how to view stereo pairs. I'm still looking in to some of the alternatives. The Ted Pella Catalog turned out to be a great resource. There were a number of inexpensive devices that I tried and one of them turned out to be wonderful. The viewer is: Cat# 20662 Stereo Viewer, 2 x 2" It looks a bit like a child's ViewMaster and takes 2-35mm slides (which are of course the stereo pair). I loaded my stereo pair into Persuasion to have slides made of them on our departments slide maker. Viewing the slides through the above viewer gives the clearest, sharpest viewing I have seen. I would still like to find a good viewing system for 8x10 laser printouts. Pella had a promising pair of prism glasses (Cat# 7640) which didn't work well. The Stereo Viewer was about $10. Joel Brody Dept of Anatomy UCSF SF, CA 94143 grcunha@itsa.ucsf.edu From set@eru.mt.luth.se Fri Sep 10 12:24:31 1993 Received: from eru.mt.luth.se by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA17874; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 04:24:21 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [130.240.1.176] (osse219.mt.luth.se) by eru.mt.luth.se with SMTP (5.65+bind 1.7+ida 1.4.2/IDA-1.2.8-NS) id AA10078; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:24:30 +0200 Message-Id: <199309100924.AA10078@eru.mt.luth.se> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:24:31 +0100 To: From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg) Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade - a war X-Content-Type: Text/Quoted-Readable >Please keep the replies to the list. That's what makes this so useful >and interesting. > >-Glen I'l second you on that. ---- Sven-Erik Tiberg ---- From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Fri Sep 10 08:24:57 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA20842; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 08:24:57 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309101324.AA20842@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 10 Sep 1993 09:24:00 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Newsgroup To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ Newsgroup Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu I have had a number of messages from Lachlan Cranswick, an Australian guy who is trying to start a newsgroup called sci.xtallography. He has met stiff resistance from the Usenet "Secret Police" and the net naysayers. It seems that unless you are wanting a comp newsgroup or a rec one it is difficult to get one started. There are a number of people who seem to spend their whole time watching the newsgroups and voting no on creation of any new one. Jst my feeling from talking to Lachlan via email. if you want to head/read more on his experiences his address is: >Lachlan Cranswick - CSIRO _--_|\ lachlan@dmp.CSIRO.AU "Blessed >Division of Mineral Products / \ tel +61 3 647 0367 are the >PO Box 124, Port Melbourne \_.--._/ fax +61 3 646 3223 Cheesemakers" >3207 AUSTRALIA v "Eat Judge Boot!" - J. Dredd. -------------------------------------- Date: 9/9/93 22:29 To: John Mansfield From: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Register another vote for a Usenet newsgroup. The messages can still be broadcast to those of you who don't mind wading through dozens of E_Mail postings per day, but in the absence of a Usenet group, no alternative is offered to those of us who would rather deal with mail as mail and special interest groups as something else. - David Salzman, Ph.D. ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by mse.engin.umich.edu with SMTP;9 Sep 1993 22:29:34 U Received: from nx1.soils.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c8fdf73009513; Thu, 9 Sep 93 20:59:15 -0500 Received: from (localhost) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA13454; Thu, 9 Sep 1993 20:58:35 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 20:58:35 -0500 Message-Id: <9309100158.AA28910@cascade.MIT.EDU> Comment: NIH Image Distribution List Originator: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Errors-To: owner-nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply-To: Sender: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Version: 5.5 -- Copyright (c) 1991/92, Anastasios Kotsikonas From: salzman%Athena.MIT.EDU@relay.tc.umn.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade From SMASESM@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU Fri Sep 10 03:45:31 1993 Received: from umslvma.umsl.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21116; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 08:49:47 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309101349.AA21116@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Received: from UMSLVMA by UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8527; Fri, 10 Sep 93 08:50:00 CDT Received: from UMSLVMA (SMASESM) by UMSLVMA (Mailer R2.08) with BSMTP id 7406; Fri, 10 Sep 93 08:50:00 CDT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 08:45:31 CDT From: Mike Sesma Subject: Re: LISTSERV upgrade To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 9 Sep 1993 16:13:31 -0500 from I've learned more about imaging since I became a subscriber than I ever thought I could learn by 'eavesdropping'. Even the topic drift has not been a major problem. I vote for upgrading the listserver. I can deal with the bad bounces the same way I deal with junk mail and salespersons. Thanks, Mike Sesma, U.M.-St.Louis From salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Fri Sep 10 06:49:35 1993 Received: from Athena.MIT.EDU (ATHENA-AS-WELL.MIT.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA21912; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 09:49:30 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CASCADE.MIT.EDU by Athena.MIT.EDU with SMTP id AA04274; Fri, 10 Sep 93 10:49:41 EDT From: salzman@Athena.MIT.EDU Received: by cascade.MIT.EDU (5.57/4.7) id AA25062; Fri, 10 Sep 93 10:49:35 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 10:49:35 -0400 Message-Id: <9309101449.AA25062@cascade.MIT.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: NIH Image Usenet newsgroup There are a number of ways to start a Usenet group. (1) The traditional method is straightforward. John asks the Usenet gods to call for a vote on the formation of the group sci.image.processing.nih If it gets voted down, then other avenues remain. In any case, there is no harm in proposing a group, even if it does get voted down eventually! (2) We could just be subversive about the whole thing. John should propose forming the group alt.stampcollecting.tedious, which the thought police would be less likely to flame. No one would look at the group unless told its real purpose. Think of this as akin to the secret decoder ring from the Cheerios boxes of your youth. (3) Alternatively, we could hijack an existing group, preferably with such discreetness that only the cognoscenti would ever know about it. An example is the group alt.fan.spinal-tap. The group already exists. No one's permission is required. From huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU Fri Sep 10 06:40:19 1993 Received: from mcclb0.med.nyu.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22621; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 10:36:37 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from DialupEudora (ANNEX1.NYU.EDU) by MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (PMDF V4.2-14 #2884) id <01H2S5RV0ER4000RR9@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU>; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:36:34 EDT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:40:19 -0500 From: huff@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU (Edward J. Huff) Subject: Re: Newsgroup To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2S5RVT2S2000RR9@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu writes: >I have had a number of messages from Lachlan Cranswick, an Australian guy who >is trying to start a newsgroup called sci.xtallography. He has met stiff >resistance from the Usenet "Secret Police" and the net naysayers. It seems >that unless you are wanting a comp newsgroup or a rec one it is difficult to >get one started. There are a number of people who seem to spend their whole >time watching the newsgroups and voting no on creation of any new one. >Jst my feeling from talking to Lachlan via email. [...] (after all, there is already a bionet.xtallography... I haven't read about why he wants another, I suppose because bionet distribution is not as wide.) It IS possible to pass a newsgroup, and there are a number in comp.soft-sys devoted to specific software systems, so a comp.soft-sys.nih-image might fly. But it is a lot of work. I was involved in creating sci.image.processing, along with John Stanley, who set up a mailing list to discuss the creation of the newsgroup, and counted the votes which were collected by an automatic system run by Jonathan I. Kamens. In the end, the number of yes votes was near a record high, 1200, due to a lot of campaigning. It might also have had something to do with the fact that the moderator of the computer vision list editoralized against it, which I speculate caused some sympathy backlash... The vote taker cannot campaign. There are some unwritten rules that newcomers are always violating and getting into trouble. Recently there have been some attempts to write these down, see the FAQ's at rtfm.mit.edu /pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/news/groups or news/announce/newusers or on your local news server. There are two alternatives for Usenet: (1) use bionet, which has a somewhat easier group creation process and does not involve news.groups, or (2) create an alt group, which is very easy, involves no voting, but can essentially never be reversed. (Some people object to removing alt groups, so anytime anyone tries to do so, they just recreate it...) If the majority of the readers of this list have access to alt groups (ask your sysadmin), then an alt group might be the way to go. The wais and gopher groups which ended up in comp.soft-sys started this way, and maybe they regretted it. Some people consider it a "bad neighborhood" because of the alt.sex groups... If we have 200 or 300 readers all of whom are willing to sign the RFD for comp.soft-sys.nih-image, and a volunteer to run the voting, then maybe that would be the way to go. Bionet has the advantage that articles are automatically archived and generally an associated mailing list is set up. Using Eudora for mail, I find that the mailing list is not too bad... From grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU Fri Sep 10 02:03:36 1993 Received: from itsa.ucsf.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22927; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:02:38 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by itsa.ucsf.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/GSC4.22) id AA11108; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 09:03:36 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 09:03:36 -0700 From: grcunha@itsa.ucsf.EDU (Gerald Cunha) Message-Id: <9309101603.AA11108@itsa.ucsf.EDU> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: re:stereo viewing John: I haven't tried the Mirror Stereoscope because of cost. It may be the ultimate answer to our problems if we end up doing a lot of stereo pairs. Thanks for the reference. From Scott.Wurcer@analog.com Fri Sep 10 08:04:25 1993 Received: from nic.near.net by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22964; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:04:31 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [137.71.23.11] by nic.near.net id aa25875; 10 Sep 93 12:04 EDT Received: from nwd2sun1.analog.com ([137.71.22.41]) by adi.analog.com Received: from titania.adsdesign.analog.com by nwd2sun1.analog.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) Message-Id: <9309101602.AA25569@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Received: from hermia.adsdesign.analog.com by titania.adsdesign.analog.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 12:04:25 EDT From: Scott Wurcer To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: NIH Image Usenet newsgroup Considering my company's news-server is totally random, I vote to keep things the way they are (obviously). From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Fri Sep 10 06:03:49 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA22997; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:05:09 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA23175; Fri, 10 Sep 93 11:03:49 CDT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 11:03:49 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9309101603.AA23175@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list Cc: Edward J. Huff Subject: Re: Newsgroup creation In-Reply-To: Edward J. Huff's message <01H2S5RVT2S2000RR9@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> of 10 September 1993 References: <01H2S5RVT2S2000RR9@MCCLB0.MED.NYU.EDU> Edward J. Huff writes on 10 September 1993 at 10:36:57 -0500 > > There are two alternatives for Usenet: > (1) use bionet, which has a somewhat easier group creation process > and does not involve news.groups, or I'm not sure how widely distributed bionet.* is; we've got it, but then we've got *everything* (6204 newsgroups as of an hour ago). It's us and UUNET if you want complete. My impression was that bionet was much like info.* and bit.listserv.* -- a collection of mailing lists gatewayed into news. Not bad, but I don't know how widely they're carried. It certainly looks good from a "do we carry this top-level distribution?" standpoint, so I would suspect it is widely carried. > (2) create an alt group, which is very easy, involves no voting, > but can essentially never be reversed. (Some people object to > removing alt groups, so anytime anyone tries to do so, they > just recreate it...) alt.gopher got a few posting this year, but *very* few. You really should go into alt.config and tell a few folks about it, but there isn't the burden of "proof" of utility like there is in the big six hierarchies, and yes, sci.* seems particularly resistant to new groups; don't really know why. > If the majority of the readers of this list have access to alt > groups (ask your sysadmin), then an alt group might be the way to > go. The wais and gopher groups which ended up in comp.soft-sys > started this way, and maybe they regretted it. Some people > consider it a "bad neighborhood" because of the alt.sex groups... That's their loss for not cutting it alt off at alt.sex.* and alt.binaries.pictures.eroctica.*, but I have seen this kinda policy *all* to often, and don't agree with it. But that's another topic entirely. If alt.nih-image isn't gatewayed back to the list after the (proposed) creation of the (proposed) comp.soft-sys.nih-image, people will learn fairly quickly that nothing happens there, and quit using it. Many newsreaders are smart enough to get a list of groups and look through it to see if the righthand portion of their favorite newsgroup has showed up with a different path. At least, I should hope :-) > If we have 200 or 300 readers all of whom are willing to sign the > RFD for comp.soft-sys.nih-image, and a volunteer to run the voting, > then maybe that would be the way to go. And that's ewasier to do if you can show good community response in alt.nih-image or alt.sci.nih-image > Bionet has the advantage that articles are automatically archived > and generally an associated mailing list is set up. Hmm.. I've been happy to contribute by running the list, but if a good option for adding newsgroup distribution als results in a mailing list, I'd give up running this one. Not asking, mind you, just letting you know that I'd step down gracefully for the good of all :-) From KNECHT@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU Fri Sep 10 07:10:35 1993 Received: from vx.cis.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23185; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:14:46 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (MAILER@UCONNVM) by vx.cis.umn.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2574) id <01H2S50QUFQOB12W5H@vx.cis.umn.edu>; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:14:45 CDT Received: from UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (KNECHT) by UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (Mailer R2.08 R208004) with BSMTP id 5833; Fri, 10 Sep 93 12:12:06 EST Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 12:10:35 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Knecht Subject: Re: Stereo Viewer Review In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 9 Sep 1993 23:56:06 -0500 from To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Message-Id: <01H2S50VKU08B12W5H@vx.cis.umn.edu> X-Envelope-To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT You mentioned the Ted Pella Catalog but I didn't see information on address or phone. Can you post it please? Dave From jladwig@soils.umn.edu Fri Sep 10 06:14:19 1993 Received: from saturn.soils.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23194; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:15:48 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by saturn.soils.umn.edu (4.1) id AA23241; Fri, 10 Sep 93 11:14:19 CDT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 11:14:19 CDT From: "John Ladwig" Message-Id: <9309101614.AA23241@saturn.soils.umn.edu> To: Scott Wurcer Cc: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Change to LISTPROC coming [was Re: NIH Image Usenet newsgroup] In-Reply-To: Scott Wurcer's message <9309101602.AA25569@nwd2sun1.analog.com> of 10 September 1993 References: <9309101602.AA25569@nwd2sun1.analog.com> Scott Wurcer writes on 10 September 1993 at 11:11:27 -0500 > Considering my company's news-server is totally random, I vote to > keep things the way they are (obviously). All is not academia, unfortunately. We're *real* spolied, and I, for one, know and appreciate that. I will not be undertaking any proposal which does not also include a mail-based option, many of which possibilities result in no change for the existing subscriptions of this list, modulo any changes that happen as I upgrade software versions. Upgrade will probably be this weekend folks, the new version looks good. -jml From John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Fri Sep 10 11:30:57 1993 Received: from mse.engin.umich.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA23507; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 11:30:57 -0500 Return-Path: Message-Id: <199309101630.AA23507@nx1.soils.umn.edu> Date: 10 Sep 1993 12:29:42 U From: "John Mansfield" Subject: Re: Newsgroup To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Reply_ RE>>Newsgroup Reply from: John Mansfield North Campus Electron Microbeam Analysis Laboratory University of Michigan 2455 Hayward Ann Arbor MI 48109-2143 Phone: (313)936-3352 jfmjfm@engin.umich.edu or John_Mansfield@mse.engin.umich.edu Actually I think I should have said that I prefer the mailing list. I think we miss out a lot of wasted bandwidth by having a mailing list over a newsgroup. From mmunro@convx1.ccit.arizona.edu Fri Sep 10 03:16:47 1993 Received: from Arizona.edu (Hopey.Telcom.Arizona.EDU) by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA24616; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 12:16:26 -0500 Return-Path: mmunro@convx1.ccit.arizona.edu Received: from convx1.ccit.arizona.edu by Arizona.edu (PMDF V4.2-13 #2381) id <01H2S2ZHPY6O9I84J2@Arizona.edu>; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 10:16:22 MST Received: by convx1.ccit.arizona.edu; Fri, 10 Sep 93 10:16:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 10:16:47 -0700 From: mmunro@convx1.ccit.arizona.edu (Martin Munro) Subject: Re: Newsgroup To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Cc: mmunro@Arizona.edu Message-Id: <9309101716.AA27117@convx1.ccit.arizona.edu> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For my own selfish reasons I'd like to see the creation of a newsgroup, since I've recently acquired a decent newsreader which makes following threads much easier than in my disorganized mess of mail messages. But it might be justified on other grounds: I've been impressed with the amount of useful general image processing information that appears in the NIH Image list, compared to what I can find in various Usenet groups. Perhaps existing Usenet users would benefit from an NIH Image group as much as subscribers to the present mail distribution. ---Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internet: mmunro@convx1.CCIT.Arizona.EDU | Martin A.R. Munro | Tree-ring Lab Bitnet: MMUNRO@ARIZVMS | University of Arizona | Tucson Phone: +1 (602) 621-2518 | AZ 85721 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chandler@lamar.ColoState.EDU Fri Sep 10 06:53:21 1993 Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26179; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 13:53:12 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from CHANDLER.VETMED.ColoState.EDU by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA04751; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 12:53:21 -0600 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1993 12:53:21 -0600 Message-Id: <9309101853.AA04751@lamar.ColoState.EDU> To: From: chandler@lamar.ColoState.EDU (John Chandler) Subject: Re: Stereo Viewer Review >You mentioned the Ted Pella Catalog but I didn't see information on address or >phone. Can you post it please? Dave Sorry. That refered to a previous post that did have the phone number. The company is: Ted Pella, Inc. PO Box 492477 Redding CA 96049-2477 800-237-3526 If you have an electron microscopy lab nearby, or know someone who does EM, you're sure to find a copy of the catalog there. John chandler@lamar.ColoState.EDU Fort Collins, CO From djchin@dsrna.agi.org Fri Sep 10 05:41:56 1993 Received: from dsrna.agi.org by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA26854; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 14:33:08 -0500 Return-Path: Received: by dsrna.agi.org (920110.SGI/920323.SGI.AUTO.ANONFTP) for nih-image@soils.umn.edu id AA19612; Fri, 10 Sep 93 12:41:56 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 12:41:56 -0700 From: djchin@dsrna.agi.org (daniel j. chin) Message-Id: <9309101941.AA19612@dsrna.agi.org> To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: listserv vs usenet salzman%Athena.MIT.EDU wrote: we could hijack an existing group,... example is the group alt.fan.spinal-tap.The group already exists. ---- please consider the fact that many sites restrict Usenet feeds to *only* bionet.x and comp.x. The alt.x groups are often censored owing to the proliferation of frivolous and numerous groups with hi bandwidth. From Fredboyd@bmec.micro.umn.edu Fri Sep 10 11:23:07 1993 Received: from mail.tc.umn.edu by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA00158; Fri, 10 Sep 1993 17:27:29 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from mailbox.mail.umn.edu by mail.tc.umn.edu id SMTP-0012c90ef10019607; Fri, 10 Sep 93 16:18:08 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 93 16:23:07 CDT Message-Id: <9309102123.AA07163@mailbox.mail.umn.edu> Received: from pathobiology-212.med.umn.edu by mailbox.mail.umn.edu; Fri, 10 Sep 93 16:23:07 CDT From: "Fred Boyd, Ph.D." To: nih-image@soils.umn.edu Subject: Re: Newsgroup In message <9309101716.AA27117@convx1.ccit.arizona.edu> writes: > For my own selfish reasons I'd like to see the creation of a newsgroup, > since I've recently acquired a decent newsreader which makes following > threads much easier than in my disorganized mess of mail messages. I'm truly intrigued- what is this "decent newsreader?" My objection to changing the format of this forum to a newsgroup is that I get hopelessly bogged down whenever I start looking through the groups and end up with little specific information. Please let me know how you limit your news browsing to useful (or at least potentially useful) postings. Fred Boyd, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Laboratory Medicine and Pathology Cell Biology and Neuroanatomy University of Minnesota _______________________________________________________________________________ Box 609, UMHC Phone (612) 624-8150 420 Delaware St. SE FAX (612) 626-2444 Minneapolis, MN 55455 From roper@lamar.ColoState.EDU Sat Sep 11 01:48:41 1993 Received: from lamar.ColoState.EDU by nx1.soils.umn.edu (5.65c) id AA08810; Sat, 11 Sep 1993 08:48:32 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from [129.82.126.25] by lamar.ColoState.EDU (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA77312; Sat, 11 Sep 1993 07:48:41 -0600 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1993 07:48:41 -0600 Message-Id: <9309111348.AA77312@lamar.ColoState.EDU> To: From: roper@lamar.ColoState.EDU Subject: sending files via email I have a question regarding sending files, whether TIFF files created in IMAGE, programs, or even wordprocessor documents (eg a WordPerfect document), to colleagues via email, esp between Macs and IBMs. I use Eudora for email, and do not have any problem "attaching" files to send to another Mac running Eudora. But I have not been successful "attaching" files and sending them to a DOS machine. Conversely, attached files from a DOS sender arrive on my machine as gobbledegook (presumably encoded). The Eudora manual is somewhat helpful, but I need some practical advice from those of you who have been successful in "attaching" files to email between machines running different communications software or even different operating systems. Any suggestions? Thanks! -------------------------------------------- Stephen Roper, Professor of Anatomy and Neurobiology, Colorado State University, Ft. Collins CO 80523 INTERNET: Roper@Lamar.ColoState.Edu FAX:(303) 491-7907 PHONE: (303) 491-7808